[Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?

[Bill Effros]

Bob,

Judging from Wally's material cost, and Slim's construction technique, 
it seems the $600 material cost is high.  For the quantities we will 
need, the $30 Chinese labor cost is probably low.  But there is still 
plenty of room to go.

The big problem would seem to be the one we are now addressing--namely 
that we have neither the volume nor the management to be able to connect 
our Mom and Pop organization with the Chinese Mom and Pop organization 
we are looking for.  Neither organization is big enough to show up on 
any radar screen.

At $1050 you're a buyer?

Bill Effros

Bob Keller wrote:

> I think the Chinese Boom Room is a great idea.  Let me try some math 
> here with some WAGs:
>
> The last price quote I heard was $2,000 for the BR.  Let's say that is 
> $600 materials + $1,000 labor and $400 profit per unit.  If you go 
> Chinese you can probably have $600 material + $30 labor (assuming 
> their labor costs ~ 1/40 of ours) and sell them for $1050.  Equal 
> profit per unit but likely would sell many more units.   Could 
> probably get much cheaper materials and lower the cost even more, but 
> that might compromise quality.
>
> Does this make sense?  I have no idea.
> Bob K
>
>
>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:26:27 -0400
>>
>> Wally,
>>
>> Brad is looking around in Beijing.  Dave said he would look in Shanghai.
>>
>> I think they are looking for a Chinese Mom and Pop like Alex and 
>> Pamela--people who will do excellent quality work for a fair price.  
>> It is impossible to know what the price will be.  There will be no 
>> inventory.  They won't make 10 or 25 at a time.  It will be just like 
>> the boat--you pay your money--you get whatever you want.  If you want 
>> cushions with memory foam, you get cushions with memory foam 
>> (provided Stan doesn't say there is a structural problem with fill-in 
>> memory foam cushions--the cushions Stan provides distribute the 
>> weight over a large area--you and your passengers will often be 
>> standing on the fill-in cushions--unlike the cockpit seats, which 
>> fully support the cushions, the fill in boards are in mid air--I try 
>> not to stand on the boards when they don't have Stan's cushions on 
>> them).
>>
>> With a project like this you don't start with your costs and add on a 
>> markup.  You work the other way around.  What would people happily 
>> pay, provided we can provide the same flexibility and quality.  Then 
>> you work to find out if you can actually build the widget for what 
>> people are willing to pay.  If you can't, you go back to the people 
>> and ask if they would be willing to pay what you must charge.  If 
>> not, you don't build them.
>>
>> Do you know what material the boom room is made of?  I said "canvas" 
>> but I don't think it is actually made out of canvas.  Is it the same 
>> material as the Pop-Top Enclosure?  Do you think it should be made 
>> out of something else?  What?
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> Wally Buck wrote:
>>
>>> Bill, It is hard to guess what I would want to spend. You need to 
>>> determine production and shipping costs. From there add the desired 
>>> mark up. That is the price. I am sure GB does not want to carry 
>>> large cost for inventory. I would suspect that prices could be 
>>> quoted for different sizes. Get quotes for 5, 10 25, each.  I have 
>>> no idea who to go to for "quotes" in China but it sounds like there 
>>> might be folks on this list that do.
>>>
>>> Initially I would want new cockpit cushions with fill in. Also cabin 
>>> cushions. I am considering doing this myself. I am also getting 
>>> price locally. One drawbck to doing them myself is the most likely 
>>> will look like crap. Having them done locally means I can test foam 
>>> and not pay shipping. Ordering from GB means they will fit right but 
>>> I don't want standard foam. In the cabin I want to go with 3 inches 
>>> of foam with 1 inch of memory foam glued on top side. I have seen 
>>> cushions made this way and they are great for sleeping and sitting. 
>>> I am still working on best foam for cockpit (with fill in).
>>>
>>> Wally
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:02:44 -0400
>>>>
>>>> Wally,
>>>>
>>>> Can you put numbers on your desires?  I mean this quite seriously.  
>>>> I know you use your boat, and I know you want to be fair to Stan.  
>>>> At what price would you buy various items from Stan?  Which items 
>>>> would you be most interested in?  What would you be willing to 
>>>> pay?  You will not be held to any of this--it is just part of an 
>>>> exercise to see if what we all want can be done.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you are asking me if I have a problem purchasing Chinese made 
>>>>> boat parts from Stan ....If I place my order and send payment to 
>>>>> Stan the source doesn't concern me too much. I would prefer to buy 
>>>>> "USA" but I have owned many imported cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> You also asked if price is holding me back from purchasing boat 
>>>>> goodies from GB. The answer is yes. I would love to have new cabin 
>>>>> cushions, new cockpit cushions, cokcpit fill-in cushions, pop-top 
>>>>> enclosure, bimini. The boom room really doesn't interest me. We 
>>>>> overnight quite a bit. If it is stormy we go in cabin. If it is 
>>>>> nice we like the view from cockpit. We also swim and fish.  I am 
>>>>> trying to decide if I should spend the money on my R22 or perhaps 
>>>>> sell and use the cash from all of those upgrades for .......
>>>>>
>>>>> I forgot, add the battened IMF to my wish  list as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wally
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> To: R22 List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:21:37 -0400
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brad Haslett emailed me off-list regarding our discussion of boom 
>>>>>> rooms, etc. which he has been following while vacationing in China.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brad asked if anyone would have an interest in his exploring 
>>>>>> Chinese manufacture of Boom Rooms, Sails, Pop-Top Enclosures, 
>>>>>> Cockpit and Cabin Cushions, Cockpit Fill in Boards, -- all the 
>>>>>> little stuff the Chinese can make for a fraction of what it costs 
>>>>>> to manufacture in the US.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have not asked Stan about this, and I don't think Brad has 
>>>>>> either, however it goes without saying that if Stan doesn't like 
>>>>>> the idea, Brad is not going to do it.  Stan would make money on 
>>>>>> every item made in China, and whatever he says is his cut, that's 
>>>>>> what he'll get.  There will be no negotiation on this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But before he even begins the project, Brad wants to know how the 
>>>>>> ultimate consumers feel about this idea.  If Brad can set up 
>>>>>> manufacturing in China with Stan's approval, would Rhodes owners 
>>>>>> buy the Chinese made products?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stan would have to provide the original patterns and 
>>>>>> specifications, but that is all Stan would have to do.  Brad 
>>>>>> believes he can set up a reliable manufacturing operation in 
>>>>>> China that will produce any of these products to Stan's 
>>>>>> satisfaction at a lower cost than Stan can get them produced in 
>>>>>> the US.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5 of us indicated an interest in Boom Rooms.  Me, Chris, Dave, 
>>>>>> Bruce, and maybe Bob.  (Did I miss anyone?)  I would be willing 
>>>>>> to be the guinea pig on this. How do the rest of you feel?  Bob, 
>>>>>> if we could bring the price down, at what price would you be a 
>>>>>> player?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about people who want Pop Top Enclosures, or Battened IMF 
>>>>>> sails, or cockpit fill in cushions?  Is there a price for these 
>>>>>> items that would prompt you to take money out of your pocket and 
>>>>>> put it on the table?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look at Stan's options prices on his web site 
>>>>>> (http://www.rhodes22.com/super_options.html).  Is there something 
>>>>>> you would actually buy if the price were lower?  If so, what 
>>>>>> would the price have to be?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brad is returning to the US shortly, and doesn't have much time 
>>>>>> to see if he can set up something like this.  If you think this 
>>>>>> is a terrible idea, please speak up quickly so we all know where 
>>>>>> we stand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think this is an interesting idea if Brad can actually do it.  
>>>>>> It is something we can all do to put more money in Stan's pocket 
>>>>>> right away, while buying parts for our boats at a lower cost.  
>>>>>> It's a win-win...if Brad can pull it off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please note.  Brad is a commercial airline pilot who no longer 
>>>>>> owns a Rhodes 22.  There is nothing in this deal for him.  He 
>>>>>> will always make more money flying an airplane than getting 
>>>>>> involved in a crazy sailboat spare parts Chinese manufacturing 
>>>>>> scheme.  He just happens to be in China right now, saw Stan's 
>>>>>> Lament, and asked if there was anything he could do to help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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