[Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?

Wally Buck tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Sun Aug 28 09:58:18 EDT 2005 

Bill, I will try to remember to take pictures. Wally


>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:47:16 -0400
>
>Wally,
>
>Any pictures?
>
>Same comments as made to Slim.  You both seem to have gone in the same 
>direction, with the same satisfactory results.  If you think these problems 
>through for me, I'm just as happy to pay you for your time and effort as I 
>am to pay Stan.  Does Jenny want to make some money on your sewing machine? 
>  I'll pay you in Bean Bag chairs if you like.
>
>Again, I'm really serious here.  I want something like what you've got.  I 
>think I should and will pay Stan for his contributions.  Brad is in China 
>trying to work out the manufacturing, but if we can do it closer to home, 
>and develop a superior product, that is what I would want to do.
>
>It would appear that I have greatly overestimated the cost of materials.  
>That should leave enough room for labor, profit, royalties, and a much more 
>attractive price so more people would purchase this option.
>
>Bill Effros
>
>Wally Buck wrote:
>
>>Bill,
>>
>>Tarp was purchased from Northern Tool per Roger's endorsement. It is 
>>cordura nylon (something like that) 8 X 10. It was $25 and is 3 years old 
>>and I would say it is in perfect shape. It shed rainwater quite well plus 
>>I sprayed it with some waterproofing stuff I use on my tents. I would say 
>>it eliminates 95% of dew in the cockpit. It is just a little short going 
>>aft stopping a couple of inches short of back stays. No coverage aft of 
>>back stays. I drape over boom and bungie all 4 corners. I use tent poles 
>>over boom for support; it looks like a covered wagon. The whole thing rigs 
>>in about 2 mintues. I have boom in highest position slightly raised so you 
>>can stand under tarp. If it is actually raining I slacken topping lift to 
>>help flow drip aft. I lash down if windy conditions. If real windy I don't 
>>use. This provides no bug protection. Bugs are not a problem for us. If 
>>they were I have thought of purchasing mosquito netting that is sold to 
>>drape over queen or king size bed. I think for 50 bucks i could find 
>>something to cover poptop and cockpit.
>>
>>Wally
>>
>>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 09:07:06 -0400
>>>
>>>Wally,
>>>
>>>We will be able to get what we are willing to pay for.  The question is, 
>>>what are we willing to pay for?  A Multilith is a printing press.  But if 
>>>someone says they need a printing press, the first thing you would want 
>>>to know is the quality of printing press they have in mind, and what they 
>>>are willing to pay.
>>>
>>>Your tarp is a "boom room".  I think I need more than that--but maybe 
>>>not.  Maybe what I want costs more than I am willing to pay.  Maybe, for 
>>>what it costs, your tarp is exactly what I want.
>>>
>>>Please tell me more about your tarp.  What material is it made out of?  I 
>>>assume it is supported by the boom.  Does it tie down to something?  
>>>What?  Does some dew get into it?  How much?  What about bugs?  Do you 
>>>raise your boom with your topping lift when you are under your tarp?
>>>
>>>Bill Effros
>>>
>>>Wally Buck wrote:
>>>
>>>>MJM - I didn't mean to over simplify. Initial start up costs and limited 
>>>>volume doesn't allow the costs to be spread around to thousands or 
>>>>millions of buyers. That can be a problem. That is why I didn't name a 
>>>>price. I have a feeling once you determine all of the start up costs 
>>>>there will not be much savings.
>>>>
>>>>Not having the boat there creates issues but most of the stuff we are 
>>>>talking about is not that exacting. Once patterns and templates are 
>>>>developed producing boom room and pop top enclosures should not be that 
>>>>big of a deal. As always the devil is in the details.
>>>>
>>>>Wally
>>>>
>>>>>From: michael meltzer <michaelmeltzer at yahoo.com>
>>>>>Reply-To: mjm at michaelmeltzer.com,The Rhodes 22 mail list 
>>>>><rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>>>Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:50:52 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>>
>>>>>You guy are missing the bigest problem with offshore
>>>>>boat work, They do not have the boat!!!, You will send
>>>>>them spec's and return they will be expecting you to
>>>>>pay for, if something is off, your are stuck, the seat
>>>>>cushions are not to bad, the templet is pretty stright
>>>>>forward, but execpt that someone is going to "eat" the
>>>>>coast of a few rounds until they are right. Than a
>>>>>really problem keeping Quauiuily control up. CAD/CMA a
>>>>>real design to work from??? The boom room with be a
>>>>>nightmare with out a boat to work with. someone is
>>>>>going to eat alot of money before that one is right
>>>>>and than you beeter hope that who ever made it is
>>>>>still with the firm for the nrext order or prototype.
>>>>>The run quaniantys are to low to do the job right.
>>>>>-mjm, The problem is simple project managment.
>>>>>
>>>>>--- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Bill, It is hard to guess what I would want to
>>>>> > spend. You need to determine
>>>>> > production and shipping costs. From there add the
>>>>> > desired mark up. That is
>>>>> > the price. I am sure GB does not want to carry large
>>>>> > cost for inventory. I
>>>>> > would suspect that prices could be quoted for
>>>>> > different sizes. Get quotes
>>>>> > for 5, 10 25, each.  I have no idea who to go to for
>>>>> > "quotes" in China but
>>>>> > it sounds like there might be folks on this list
>>>>> > that do.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Initially I would want new cockpit cushions with
>>>>> > fill in. Also cabin
>>>>> > cushions. I am considering doing this myself. I am
>>>>> > also getting price
>>>>> > locally. One drawbck to doing them myself is the
>>>>> > most likely will look like
>>>>> > crap. Having them done locally means I can test foam
>>>>> > and not pay shipping.
>>>>> > Ordering from GB means they will fit right but I
>>>>> > don't want standard foam.
>>>>> > In the cabin I want to go with 3 inches of foam with
>>>>> > 1 inch of memory foam
>>>>> > glued on top side. I have seen cushions made this
>>>>> > way and they are great for
>>>>> > sleeping and sitting. I am still working on best
>>>>> > foam for cockpit (with fill
>>>>> > in).
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Wally
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > >From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>> > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>>> > >Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:02:44 -0400
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >Wally,
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >Can you put numbers on your desires?  I mean this
>>>>> > quite seriously.  I know
>>>>> > >you use your boat, and I know you want to be fair
>>>>> > to Stan.  At what price
>>>>> > >would you buy various items from Stan?  Which items
>>>>> > would you be most
>>>>> > >interested in?  What would you be willing to pay?
>>>>> > You will not be held to
>>>>> > >any of this--it is just part of an exercise to see
>>>>> > if what we all want can
>>>>> > >be done.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >Bill Effros
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >>If you are asking me if I have a problem
>>>>> > purchasing Chinese made boat
>>>>> > >>parts from Stan ....If I place my order and send
>>>>> > payment to Stan the
>>>>> > >>source doesn't concern me too much. I would prefer
>>>>> > to buy "USA" but I have
>>>>> > >>owned many imported cars.
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >>You also asked if price is holding me back from
>>>>> > purchasing boat goodies
>>>>> > >>from GB. The answer is yes. I would love to have
>>>>> > new cabin cushions, new
>>>>> > >>cockpit cushions, cokcpit fill-in cushions,
>>>>> > pop-top enclosure, bimini. The
>>>>> > >>boom room really doesn't interest me. We overnight
>>>>> > quite a bit. If it is
>>>>> > >>stormy we go in cabin. If it is nice we like the
>>>>> > view from cockpit. We
>>>>> > >>also swim and fish.  I am trying to decide if I
>>>>> > should spend the money on
>>>>> > >>my R22 or perhaps sell and use the cash from all
>>>>> > of those upgrades for
>>>>> > >>.......
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >>I forgot, add the battened IMF to my wish  list as
>>>>> > well.
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >>Wally
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>> > >>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> > >>>To: R22 List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> > >>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Chinese Boom Rooms?
>>>>> > >>>Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:21:37 -0400
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>Brad Haslett emailed me off-list regarding our
>>>>> > discussion of boom rooms,
>>>>> > >>>etc. which he has been following while
>>>>> > vacationing in China.
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>Brad asked if anyone would have an interest in
>>>>> > his exploring Chinese
>>>>> > >>>manufacture of Boom Rooms, Sails, Pop-Top
>>>>> > Enclosures, Cockpit and Cabin
>>>>> > >>>Cushions, Cockpit Fill in Boards, -- all the
>>>>> > little stuff the Chinese can
>>>>> > >>>make for a fraction of what it costs to
>>>>> > manufacture in the US.
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>I have not asked Stan about this, and I don't
>>>>> > think Brad has either,
>>>>> > >>>however it goes without saying that if Stan
>>>>> > doesn't like the idea, Brad
>>>>> > >>>is not going to do it.  Stan would make money on
>>>>> > every item made in
>>>>> > >>>China, and whatever he says is his cut, that's
>>>>> > what he'll get.  There
>>>>> > >>>will be no negotiation on this.
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>But before he even begins the project, Brad wants
>>>>> > to know how the
>>>>> > >>>ultimate consumers feel about this idea.  If Brad
>>>>> > can set up
>>>>> > >>>manufacturing in China with Stan's approval,
>>>>> > would Rhodes owners buy the
>>>>> > >>>Chinese made products?
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>Stan would have to provide the original patterns
>>>>> > and specifications, but
>>>>> > >>>that is all Stan would have to do.  Brad believes
>>>>> > he can set up a
>>>>> > >>>reliable manufacturing operation in China that
>>>>> > will produce any of these
>>>>> > >>>products to Stan's satisfaction at a lower cost
>>>>> > than Stan can get them
>>>>> > >>>produced in the US.
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>5 of us indicated an interest in Boom Rooms.  Me,
>>>>> > Chris, Dave, Bruce, and
>>>>> > >>>maybe Bob.  (Did I miss anyone?)  I would be
>>>>> > willing to be the guinea pig
>>>>> > >>>on this. How do the rest of you feel?  Bob, if we
>>>>> > could bring the price
>>>>> > >>>down, at what price would you be a player?
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>What about people who want Pop Top Enclosures, or
>>>>> > Battened IMF sails, or
>>>>> > >>>cockpit fill in cushions?  Is there a price for
>>>>> > these items that would
>>>>> > >>>prompt you to take money out of your pocket and
>>>>> > put it on the table?
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>Look at Stan's options prices on his web site
>>>>> > >>>(http://www.rhodes22.com/super_options.html).  Is
>>>>> > there something you
>>>>> > >>>would actually buy if the price were lower?  If
>>>>> > so, what would the price
>>>>> > >>>have to be?
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>Brad is returning to the US shortly, and doesn't
>>>>> > have much time to see if
>>>>> > >>>he can set up something like this.  If you think
>>>>> > this is a terrible idea,
>>>>> > >>>please speak up quickly so we all know where we
>>>>> > stand.
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>I think this is an interesting idea if Brad can
>>>>> > actually do it.  It is
>>>>> > >>>something we can all do to put more money in
>>>>> > Stan's pocket right away,
>>>>> > >>>while buying parts for our boats at a lower cost.
>>>>> >  It's a win-win...if
>>>>> > >>>Brad can pull it off.
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>Please note.  Brad is a commercial airline pilot
>>>>> > who no longer owns a
>>>>> > >>>Rhodes 22.  There is nothing in this deal for
>>>>> > him.  He will always make
>>>>> > >>>more money flying an airplane than getting
>>>>> > involved in a crazy sailboat
>>>>> > >>>spare parts Chinese manufacturing scheme.  He
>>>>> > just happens to be in China
>>>>> > >>>right now, saw Stan's Lament, and asked if there
>>>>> > was anything he could do
>>>>> > >>>to help.
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>Bill Effros
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>__________________________________________________
>>>>> > >>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>>>> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >>__________________________________________________
>>>>> > >>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>>>> > www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >__________________________________________________
>>>>> >
>>>>>=== message truncated ===
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
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