[Rhodes22-list] Political - for Brad's Eyes - notrelatedtosailing!

[Stephen Staum]

Here's to the Neanderthal's.  I will drink to that (scotch or vodka, nor 
rum, sorry Rummy).  SS
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Political - for Brad's Eyes - 
notrelatedtosailing!


> Brad,
>
> Hmmm - I am not always wrong.  I note that while we speak the market has 
> dropped 84 cents.
>
> I also said that history would eventually show that Clinton had been a 
> great president - but now I hear you saying that's happening earlier than 
> I thought
>
> I also thought that no way could the world economy take on all the job 
> retirement programs industry and governments were giving workers and that 
> they would have to bail themselves out of this "math-not-adding-up" 
> situation with a secret plan of programmed inflation.  But I was wrong 
> again - they had more balls than I guessed and either went out of business 
> with the wealthy taking theirs up front, or simply reneged on pension 
> deals that were, in effect, terms where workers took less pay to get the 
> jobs in return for the money they would get when they retired - really a 
> localized social security but with a different name.
>
> The bottom line is that when the conservatives get in power the name of 
> the game is to take whatever can be taken, away from the poor.  And when 
> the liberals get in power, to reverse that damage.  And maybe that is 
> nature's law of the survival of the species.
>
> But my basic argument remains;  and that is, when you say the poor want 
> the rich to pay, both god and I would argue that it was the poor who 
> helped the rich get there, so where's the beef.  Personally I never 
> thought it fair for W to tell the rich that the taxes they paid was their 
> money so it should be given back to them and the debt incurred in doing 
> what had to be done, belongs to the poor, so let them pay - or sell the 
> debt to foreigners and let the poor's kids pay.  But what do I know of 
> fairness and values - I'm just a leftover Neanderthal from Brooklyn.
>
> stan.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "brad haslett" <flybrad at yahoo.com>
> To: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>; "The Rhodes 22 mail list" 
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Political - for Brad's Eyes - 
> notrelatedtosailing!
>
>
>> Stan,
>>
>> Be careful what you wish for.  You're right, the
>> original intent was for SS to be an insurance program,
>> not a substitute for responsible planning.  I'd gladly
>> drop out today and forgo all future benefits but that
>> won't happen.  All the polls show that the current
>> recepients want "the rich" to pay the way and I fully
>> expect the current $90,000 limit to be raised.  Albert
>> Einstein said the eighth wonder of the world was
>> compound interest.  I'd like to see my kids take
>> advantage of that by putting a percentage of their
>> earnings into a controlled investing program.  That is
>> precisely the retirement program available to Federal
>> Government workers and I don't see a rush on their
>> part to give it up for the SS program.  I think if the
>> BHL's would look past their hatred of W they might see
>> he's hardly the fiscal conservative those of us to the
>> right of Attila the Hun would like.  Like my friend
>> always says, in many ways, Bill Clinton was the best
>> conservative President we had in a long time. W is way
>> to friendly with the pocket-book on programs like
>> Medicare for me.  As to the cuts in agriculture, he's
>> right on target. Sometimes things are not what they
>> appear.  I do think Bush is right to take on SS now
>> and not let the problem fester for future generations.
>> The devil is in the details.  We won't hear the end
>> of this for a long time.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>> --- stan <stan at rhodes22.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Brad,
>>>
>>> I do not even remember his name yet but the senate
>>> minority leader sounded
>>> good to me, so far (another Truman type?)
>>>
>>> Re SS. from a selfish point of view Rose and I are
>>> getting ours so why worry
>>> (but you know I need diversionary entertainment).
>>> So I'll ad that we have
>>> thought that everyone was looking at this program
>>> myopically.  It really
>>> either was meant to be, or should have been meant to
>>> be, a Social Security
>>> Insurance program where everyone pays into it and
>>> only those who need it
>>> when the time comes take the benefits..  My
>>> father-in-law was modestly
>>> wealthy and kept getting his SS checks which amazed
>>> us kids because he
>>> simply didn't need it and so would put it into the
>>> stock market - he was
>>> ahead of Bush's time.... .
>>>
>>> My guess is that while the president is out there
>>> pushing his investing in
>>> the market idea, the market is going to be crashing
>>> and kill the vote.
>>>
>>> stan/ec
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "brad haslett" <flybrad at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>; "The Rhodes 22 mail
>>> list"
>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 9:35 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Political - for Brad's
>>> Eyes - not
>>> relatedtosailing!
>>>
>>>
>>> > Stan,
>>> >
>>> > One of the names that keeps coming up for the Dems
>>> in
>>> > 2008 is Tennessee Governor Phil Bredesen.  Evan
>>> Bayh
>>> > shot himself in the foot with a lot of moderates
>>> over
>>> > the Condi vote.  Bredesen was Mayor of Nashville,
>>> a
>>> > self-made multi-millionare from the health care
>>> > industry, from the Northeast originally, and I
>>> voted
>>> > for him as Governor and probably could as
>>> President.
>>> > Anyway, Bredesen just last month made massive cuts
>>> in
>>> > Tennessee's universal health-care program,
>>> Tenn-Care,
>>> > because it wasn't sustainable and was bankrupting
>>> the
>>> > state.  I think nearly everyone with a heart wants
>>> > universal access to health care but these huge
>>> social
>>> > programs have so far proven difficult to
>>> administer.
>>> > Ever been to a hospital in China?  Change in our
>>> > current system is certainly needed but massive
>>> > government take-over of health care hasn't worked
>>> all
>>> > that well in the communist/socialist countries and
>>> I
>>> > don't see it working well here either.
>>> >
>>> > Now as to SS.  Did you read what Greenspan had to
>>> say?
>>> > Certainly everyone that has bought into the myth
>>> of
>>> > SS, like my parents, need to be protected.  But
>>> for my
>>> > kids, they need to be told the truth.  When the
>>> > program started the ratio was 40 workers for every
>>> > recipient.  Now its 3 to one.  When I start
>>> drawing
>>> > benefits (I'm not holding my breath on that and am
>>> > planning otherwise) the ratio will be 2 to 1.
>>> This is
>>> > a no-brainer Stan.  The numbers don't add up.
>>> When
>>> > you politize the math and scare the shit out of
>>> old
>>> > people its irresponsible.  I can't honestly look
>>> my
>>> > kids in the eye and tell them that SS is a good
>>> deal
>>> > for them.  The handwriting is on the wall.  This
>>> is
>>> > not a Republican or a Democrat problem, this is
>>> simple
>>> > demographics.  Go to the latest McKinsey
>>> newsletter
>>> > and you'll see China is facing the same problem.
>>> Its
>>> > simple math!
>>> >
>>> > Brad
>>> >
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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