[Rhodes22-list] Nuclear Energy Replies

Wed Feb 23 18:28:11 EST 2005

Bill,

Of course, we can't get into North Korea to check on the exact method they
used to obtain nuclear weapons.  However, North Korean Vice Foreign
Minister Choe Su Hon said on Sept. 27, 2004; that, his country has turned
plutonium extracted from 8,000 spent nuclear fuel rods into several nuclear
weapons.

Experts have said the rods could yield enough plutonium for eight bombs.

So, what's going on here?  Well, naturally occuring uranium contains about
99.7%wt of a nonfissionable isotope of uranium called U-238 and about 0.3%wt
of the fissionable isotope of uranium called U-235.  Nuclear fuel rods
typically are enriched in the U-235 isotope up to about 40%wt, with the
remainder being U-238.  Under bombardment by neutrons in the core of a
nuclear power reactor, some of the nonfissionable U-238 atoms get converted
into a fissionable isotope of plutonium called PU-242.  By the time the
nuclear fuel rods have been used to generate electricity for about 18
months, the amount of remaining U-235 is too low to be able to sustain the
nuclear chain reaction to produce the required heat.  The PU-242 atoms do
not undergo nuclear fission under these conditions, so they tend to
accumulate.  The fuel rods are said to be "spent".  During the refueling of
a nuclear reactor, these spent fuel rods are removed and temporarily stored
underwater in a specially built storage pool on the same site as the nuclear
power plant.  Under the 1994 treaty, the United States had television
cameras looking at the nuclear reactor and storage pool 24/7.  Inspectors
were present during all refueling operations.  North Korea had to play along
until a sufficient stockpile of spent fuel rods had been built up.  But,
they needed that time in order to secretly build their nuclear fuel rod
reprocessing facility in secret.   Once North Korea had enough spent fuel
rods, and their spent fuel rod reprocessing facility was finished, all they
needed to do was turn off the TV cameras, kick the inspectors out of the
country, and proceed to manufacture weapons-grade plutonium.

So, unless you have some information that I don't, I guess I'll take Choe Su
Hon at his word regarding how they did it.  Therefore, the treaty negotiated
by Clinton and Carter with North Korea in 1994 led directly to the situation
we now find ourselves in.

Any questions?

Roger Pihlaja

S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Nuclear Energy Replies

> Rob,
>
> Roger neglected to mention that North Korea didn't have nuclear weapons
> when Carter and Clinton were in office.  As part of the agreement, they
> had the right to develop nuclear power plants (because unlike Iran, no
> one could say they are awash in oil.)  Under the guise of "peaceful use
> of nuclear energy" they developed bomb materials using a different
> technique than the one prohibited under the terms of their agreements
> with us.
>
> When our brilliant current President  ("The Great Negotiator" we will
> call him) called North Korea part of an "axis of evil" in January 2002,
> the North Korean government accused Washington of targeting North Korea
> for a "preemptive nuclear attack." In September 2002, the Bush
> administration released a report which emphasized pre-emptively
> attacking countries developing weapons of mass destruction, explicitly
> mentioning North Korea.
>
> The Great Negotiator, after branding Iraq, North Korea, and Iran as the
> "Axis of Evil", elected to first invade Iraq to find the Weapons of Mass
> Destruction the world knew it didn't have.  The message was clear--Bush
> won't invade if you actually have weapons of mass destruction, so North
> Korea immediately set about proving that it actually had Nuclear
> Weapons.  They didn't have them before Bush.  They may not have them
> now.  But they told us they've now got them.  Just like Iraq, we had
> weapons inspectors as part of the treaty, and we knew they didn't have
> nuclear weapons until "The Great Negotiator" stepped in to save the day.
>
> The same is true of Iran.  If they've got them now, they didn't have
> them when Carter and Clinton were in office.
>
> Madame Curie (who died of radiation poisoning) would be spinning in her
> grave if she knew that people like Roger were minimizing the dangers of
> the spread of nuclear technology, while at virtually the same time
> blaming others for the spread of nuclear weapons.
>
> Bill Effros
>
> PS -- Alfred Nobel had no problem with the spread of dangerous
> technology--he invented dynamite, and became rich manufacturing it, and
> other high explosives, all over the world.
>
> Roger Pihlaja wrote:
>
> >Rob,
> >
> >I'm sorry, since it was only a decade ago, I assumed everyone knew the
> >story.  Then President Bill Clinton sent ex-President Jimmy Carter to
North
> >Korea to negotiate this deal.
> >
> >Carter & Clinton negotiated a treaty which gave the North Koreans massive
US
> >aid including oil and 2 nuclear power plants in exchange for the North
> >Koreans pledge of "Peace In Our Times"!  Carter won the 1994 Nobel Peace
> >Prize for brokering this deal.  It just goes to show that even the North
> >Koreans can be negotiated with if you just give them whatever they want!
> >The North Koreans went on to develop nukes under the cover of a civilian,
> >supposedly peaceful, nuclear power program.  The rest as they say is
> >history.  It's not partisan, it's a matter of record.
> >
> >If it weren't so potentially dangerous, the whole story would really be
> >quite amusing.  Poor Alfred Nobel must be spinning in his grave!
> >
> >Roger Pihlaja
> >S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Rob Lowe" <rlowe at vt.edu>
> >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 8:14 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Nuclear Energy Replies
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Gee Roger, do I detect a bit of partaininship in your response?  I seem
to
> >>remember there were two presidents between Carter and Clinton, namely
> >>
> >>
> >Reagan
> >
> >
> >>and Bush the first.  I seem to recall them being part of the appeasement
> >>process too.
> >>
> >>Rob Lowe
> >>S/V Getaway
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
> >>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 6:09 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Nuclear Energy Replies
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Ed,
> >>>
> >>>Boy, scary stuff!  It's starting to sound more and more like my
fearless
> >>>prediction from late September, 2004 about an Israeli military strike
on
> >>>
> >>>
> >>the
> >>
> >>
> >>>Iranian nuclear industry is going to come true.  It's currently late
> >>>February, 2005 and my original prediction said it would happen within a
> >>>year, or by late September, 2005.  I'll stand by my original timing.
> >>>
> >>>Israel absolutely cannot tolerate an Iran with nuclear weapons.  It's a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>life
> >>
> >>
> >>>or death issue for them.
> >>>
> >>>Fortunately, Israel does not have Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter
> >>>
> >>>
> >>negotiating
> >>
> >>
> >>>"on their behalf" like the United States did in 1994 with North Korea.
> >>>
> >>>
> >I
> >
> >
> >>>still can't believe Carter won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994 for that
> >>>
> >>>
> >>craven
> >>
> >>
> >>>piece of appeasement.  Now, North Korea has nuclear weapons using the
> >>>"peaceful" nuclear power reactors that Carter & Clinton gave them as
> >>>
> >>>
> >part
> >
> >
> >>of
> >>
> >>
> >>>that deal.  Gee, a tyranical communist dictator went back on his word
> >>>
> >>>
> >and
> >
> >
> >>>treaty obligations and started building nuclear weapons about 10
minutes
> >>>after the ink was dry on the 1994 agreement.  Who would have ever
> >>>
> >>>
> >expected
> >
> >
> >>>that?  Clinton & Carter should be tried for high treason for setting
the
> >>>world up for another 50 years of nuclear stand-off with a communist
> >>>dictatorship.  That's a best-case scenario, if we're "lucky".  The
> >>>worst-case scenarios get considerably scarier.
> >>>
> >>>Allow Iran to get nukes?  I don't think so!
> >>>
> >>>On a brighter note, I saw the 1st sign of spring today.  The 2005 West
> >>>Marine and Defender Marine Master Catalogs arrived via the US Snail
> >>>
> >>>
> >Mail!
> >
> >
> >>>Can ice breakup be far behind?
> >>>
> >>>2000 mockingbirds = two kilomockingbirds  cute! :)
> >>>
> >>>Roger Pihlaja
> >>>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
> >>>To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 11:02 AM
> >>>Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Nuclear Energy Replies
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Roger:
> >>>>You will not convince Bill or his fellow travelers of what you are
> >>>>saying. Iran and for that matter, Syria are just trying to help their
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>people
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>to better lives.  And what was that message the Israelis let slip in
> >>>>international circles in the last couple of days?  That they can not
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>wait
> >>
> >>
> >>>>for the Europeans to resolve the issue.  I guess we all better sail
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>while
> >>
> >>
> >>>we
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>can, it is liable to get messy over their.
> >>>>
> >>>>Some recent info:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
>
>www.islamonline.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service
_
> >
> >
> >>>>id=6795
> >>>>
> >>>>(page down to nuclear discussion) http://billroggio.com/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
>
>www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_i
d
> >
> >
> >>>>=7062
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
>
>www.aljazeera.com/cgi-in/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_ID
=
> >
> >
> >>>>6945
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Ed K
> >>>>Greenville, SC, USA
> >>>>Addendum:  2000 mockingbirds = two kilomockingbirds
> >>>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >>>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Steve
> >>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 9:14 AM
> >>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> >>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Nuclear Energy
> >>>>
> >>>>Well said, Roger.
> >>>>Steve
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>--- Roger Pihlaja <cen09402 at centurytel.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Bill,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>You have to wonder why they want it.  Iran is
> >>>>>sitting on proven reserves of
> >>>>>about 1 trillion barrels of crude oil as well as
> >>>>>copious quantities of
> >>>>>natural gas.  The country has excellent warm water,
> >>>>>ice-free port facilities
> >>>>>to ship their crude oil and natural gas.  They have
> >>>>>a pretty good
> >>>>>intra-country pipeline and refinery infrastructure.
> >>>>>They have zero reserves
> >>>>>of uranium.  At the present rate of energy
> >>>>>production & given Iran's current
> >>>>>population, GDP, & growth rate, their proven fossil
> >>>>>fuel reserves will
> >>>>>supply all their internal energy and export needs
> >>>>>for the next 50-75 years,
> >>>>>even if the country gets heavily into manufacturing
> >>>>>petrochemicals like
> >>>>>polyethylene, polypropylene, nylon, etc.  That's
> >>>>>enough time to build and
> >>>>>use up at least 1 generation of nuclear power plants
> >>>>>before they are even
> >>>>>necessary.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Gee, do you think maybe, just maybe, Iran has an
> >>>>>alternate agenda here?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Roger Pihlaja
> >>>>>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>>>>
> >>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> >>>>>To: "R22 List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 1:52 PM
> >>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Nucular Energy
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Been meaning to ask.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>How 'bout that Iran?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Do they get to have nuclear energy, too?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Or is it only safe enough for us?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Bill Effros
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>__________________________________________________
> >>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>__________________________________________________
> >>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>
> >>__________________________________________________
> >>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________
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>
>