[Rhodes22-list]Public Schools, was Public Radio and TV

[stan]

very good and very right Philip - showing how smart you are you risk the 
liberal elitist label - so lay off all that labeling stuff - Brad has a 
better system: 30/70

stan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Philip Esteban" <3drecon at comcast.net>
To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 11:28 AM
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list]Public Schools, was Public Radio and TV


>
> Keynesian is an economic theory that means the government should balance 
> the
> budget in good times and run deficits in bad times to stimulate the 
> economy
> (a very simplified explaination).
>
> Philip
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Slim
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:00 PM
> To: Rhodes
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]Public Schools, was Public Radio and TV
>
>
> Brad,
>
> I well remember your earlier story of Father Tribou and I'm happy that it
> worked out for your son.  IMO, going back to the basics is never wrong. 
> But
> throwing the baby out with the bathwater IS wrong and that's what I see
> happening with regards to public schools.  We need to fix it, not scrap 
> it.
> Maybe it's just me, living here in Lake Wobegone, where all the children 
> are
> above average.  We have great schools here where grades and grad rates are
> among the highest in the nation.
>
> That said, I'd be lying by omission if I didn't mention that my wife, who
> teaches inner city St. Paul, isn't fed up with her job and wants to quit. 
> I
> don't blame her.  Get this:  her school is a special ed "magnet" school
> which means they try to attract additional special ed kids because they've
> (supposedly, but not really) got the facilities to deal with that.  Well,
> guess what their test score averages are?  They're low.  Duh?  So what 
> does
> the district do?  Threaten to close the school for being dysfunctional
> because the test scores are low when they're a special ed magnet.  Who's
> being dysfunctional here?  Meanwhile, here's Mary Ann in class with a boat
> load of special ed kids that disrupt the class constantly and prevent the
> rest from leaning anything.  Those private schools are looking better and
> better all the time--I don't disagree.
>
> But let's move on the the WSJ article.
>
> 40 years ago, when
>> Southern segregationists did their best to evade the
>> desegregation requirements of Lyndon Johnson's
>> original law offering federal aid for education.
>
> Funny he should mention that because as I see it, racism and classism are
> STILL at the heart of the problem.
>
> Indeed, virtually every federal program is
>> funded below its authorized level. Were the courts to
>> accept the NEA claim and compel all appropriations to
>> equal authorized limits, the federal deficit would
>> immediately balloon to levels beyond the wildest
>> imagination of the most unabashed Keynesian.
>
> This is a pretty lame argument, but I have no idea what Keynesian means.
>
>
> testing is one of the best bargains in
>> education. Nationwide, cost estimates have run as low
>> as $9 per student,
>
> Baloney!  He's not factoring in the time required to prepare students and
> "teach to the test" and saying nothing of the time lost teaching core
> curriculum.
>
> the costs of more popular
>> tutoring options have so far been covered in full by
>> Federal dollars.
>
> More baloney.  That is absolutely false.
>
> according
>> to the most recent results from the National
>> Assessment of Educational Progress, 17-year-olds score
>> no better today than they did in 1970. In other words,
>> the doubling of real expenditures has borne little
>> educational fruit. That is the scandal No Child Left
>> Behind is attempting to address.
>
> I don't dispute this data, but I think the reason is because we're 
> inundated
> with nothing but gimmicks and quick fixes.  NCLB is no different.  It's 
> not
> a fix.  It won't improve grad rates or anything else.  At best, all it 
> does
> is identify what we've already identified:  poor kids do poorly.  And
> schools need to pay money for that information?
>
>
>>
>> Yet educating the neediest of our young remains the
>> civil rights issue of our time. The Southerners who
>> resisted integration found themselves on the wrong
>> side of history. Fortunately, most Southern governors
>> have figured this out. It will be a great day for all
>> children when teachers unions do so as well.
>
> Ah, so it's the unions to blame.  The republican battle cry!  The union is
> made up of teachers and what would they know about teaching?
>>
>> Mr. West is a research associate at Harvard's Program
>> on Education Policy and Governance, of which Mr.
>> Peterson, Henry Lee Shattuck Professor of Government,
>> is director.
>>
>> URL for this article:
>> http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB111465878943419249,00.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Copyright 2005 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights
>> Reserved
>>
>> This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use
>> only. Distribution and use of this material are
>> governed by our Subscriber Agreement and by copyright
>> law. For non-personal use or to order multiple copies,
>> please contact Dow Jones Reprints at 1-800-843-0008 or
>> visit www.djreprints.com.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Slim <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Philip,
>>>
>>> Why are you against public schools?  I admit, there
>>> are many problems,
>>> mostly caused by union-bashing, fund-cutting
>>> republicans; but the public
>>> schools are our best resource, period.  Shouldn't we
>>> be giving our youth the
>>> best that we can?  Private schools cost money that
>>> most do not need to pay.
>>> The public system is as good as the funding.  Offer
>>> a decent wage and you
>>> attract decent teachers.  Where I live, Minnesota,
>>> the average life-span of
>>> a new teacher is three years before they find better
>>> pay/conditions
>>> elsewhere.  It's abysmal.  It's a very tough job.  I
>>> know - been there, done
>>> that.  Have you?
>>>
>>> It's easy to sit back and complain, but consider
>>> this:  The law requires
>>> specifically mandated curriculum but doesn't fund
>>> it, and so private schools
>>> have to send students to the public schools for
>>> whatever they can't provide,
>>> e.g., special ed, phy ed, science, or whatever.  And
>>> then the public schools
>>> have to take these students, for which they are NOT
>>> paid, and provide
>>> service because it's the law.  Private schools want
>>> to have their cake and
>>> eat it too.  It's just not fair because it puts the
>>> public schools in a
>>> deeper hole than they're already in.  If you want to
>>> send your kid to
>>> private school, fine, but don't send him to the
>>> public school for gym.  But
>>> you'll have to change the law first.
>>>
>>> What really bugs me is that everybody thinks they're
>>> an expert, e.g.,
>>> legislators, governors, parents--none of whom have
>>> ever set foot in a
>>> classroom.  They keep coming up with nothing but
>>> educational gimmicks that
>>> do nothing but waste the valuable time and money of
>>> teachers.
>>>
>>> Philip, teaching a kid to read is not rocket
>>> science, but it becomes
>>> Herculean without the proper resources.  If you want
>>> to see our public
>>> system collapse, we'll be putting our youth and
>>> therefore our country at a
>>> disadvantage.  Privatizing leads to nothing but
>>> discrimination and elitism.
>>> Is that what you really want for our country--even
>>> more of the "haves" and
>>> the "have-nots?"  Should we abandon our nation's
>>> entire educational
>>> infrastructure to accommodate you and yours?
>>>
>>> Slim
>>>
>>> On 5/25/05 10:06 PM, "Philip Esteban"
>>> <3drecon at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am totally against public education in its
>>> current form.  Any parent who
>>>> wants their child well educated will NOT send them
>>> to public school.  As for
>>>> PBS, if you do not detect the left wing near
>>> communist, praise Castro bias,
>>>> then you might want to examine your own leanings.
>>>>
>>>> Philip
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On
>>> Behalf Of Saroj Gilbert
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 8:58 AM
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Public Radio and TV
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Heavens, I don't even know how to respond to
>>> this.. may have to leave it up
>>>> to the eloquence of Stan...
>>>>
>>>> Are you saying that public radio promotes
>>> communism and socialism?
>>>> Are you saying that public radio and TV promote
>>> control of individuals?
>>>> They are promoting the control of the point of
>>> view of the masses?
>>>> They are somehow disdaining individual freedom?
>>>>
>>>> That they are biased in some way I would grant
>>> you... it is impossible to be
>>>> a human being or an organization of any kind and
>>> not be biased... you are
>>>> too... we all are.. it is the nature of being a
>>> human being...or group of
>>>> human beings...  I've been listening to NPR for
>>> years, and I never picked up
>>>> on this... hmmm... just dense maybe.. somehow
>>> intellectually defective?  I
>>>> find them innovative, focused on presenting
>>> representation of the arts in a
>>>> way that can't be found anywhere else, whether
>>> literature, drama, music.
>>>>
>>>> Why don't you suggest they read Natan Saransky's
>>> book on Democracy.... they
>>>> no doubt would... maybe I should read it... I
>>> haven't...
>>>>
>>>> However if you are concerned about control of the
>>> individual then you MUST
>>>> be against public education... that is the biggest
>>> and most incidious form
>>>> of it we have in this country..  I know I am.
>>>>
>>>> Saroj
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "ed kroposki" <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>>> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'"
>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 8:28 AM
>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Public Radio and TV
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Saroj:
>>>> Unfortunately your public radio and TV often
>>> promotes a control the
>>>> masses point of view.  Communism and socialism are
>>> political positions used
>>>> to control individuals.  Big business is corporate
>>> control of the
>>>> individual.  Public radio promotes the same thesis
>>> of controlling the
>>>> individual.
>>>> Individual freedom whether political, educational,
>>> business is
>>>> distained by your public media. Public Radio or TV
>>> promotes only the view
>>>> which represent their biased point of view.
>>>> Has radio reader ever read Natan Saransky's book
>>> on Democracy?  Have
>>>> they promoted writers who espouse individual
>>> freedoms?
>>>> They advocate just another form of bigness...
>>>>
>>>> Ed Kroposki
>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>> Addendum:  "As I would not be a slave, so I would
>>> not be a master.  This
>>>> expresses my idea of democracy.  Whatever differ
>>> from this, to the extent of
>>>> difference, is no democracy."  A. Lincoln
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Saroj Gilbert
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 7:01 AM
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Re: Commitment to war
>>>>
>>>> So we can have a source of news that isn't
>>> massaged to meet the demands of
>>>> the corporate advertisers....
>>>> So we aren't bombarded by commercials...
>>>> So we can listen to the BBC...
>>>> So we can experience innovation that isn't
>>> dependent on commercially
>>>> dictated norms...
>>>>
>>>> It is mostly subscriber-supported and grant
>>> supported anyhow... but you'll
>>>> notice more and more that it receives a lot of
>>> commercial support too so it
>>>> may not be able to maintain its independence.
>>>>
>>>> Saroj
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Philip Esteban" <3drecon at comcast.net>
>>>> To: "'stan'" <stan at rhodes22.com>; "'The Rhodes 22
>>> mail list'"
>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:09 PM
>>>> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Re: Commitment to war
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Why, with hundreds of channels available are we
>>> funding public radio and
>>>>> television, but we are told we need our taxes
>>> raised
>> === message truncated ===
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Yahoo! Mail
>> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
>> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>