[Rhodes22-list] P-Horse shit and drinking.
Bill Effros
bill at effros.com
Fri Sep 23 22:42:54 EDT 2005
Rik,
You will never get an argument from me about whether or not people need
to think.
I once taught school. Far and away the toughest job I ever had. I
taught in a one room school house in Kentucky, and I taught in a ghetto
school in Camden, NJ. These kids never had a chance. I also taught in
a middle class school district in Ohio. That was the dream teaching job
you imagine when you think of what teaching must be like if you've never
done it.
The poverty stricken kids (black and white) will never learn to think
(for the most part.) Try as I might, and I did try, I could not think
of a way to help those kids learn to learn. It was so heartbreaking, I
walked away from the entire profession. I am not proud of that; in fact
it haunts me.
It's been many years, and I still think about what I could have done to
make things better. I still don't know. Friends who stayed in the
profession have become bitter. You can't blame the kids. However those
kids have become the adults who perpetuate the problem. Can you blame
them now? Chickens and eggs. Neither noted for an ability to think.
Bill Effros
Rik Sandberg wrote:
> Bill,
>
>I have a lot of opinions on roads. Most of them are like everybody elses .... probably worth about what one pays for them. But, seriously, most of the problems with the roads are not really the roads themselves, but the people using them.
>
>One thing I do believe is that the wider you make thses roads, the less efficient they are.
>
>One opinion I do have that I feel is valuable. People need to think. When one knows that EVERYONE in town is going to try to leave at the same time, one needs to think how to go where everyone else ain't. It appears this is not happening at all in Texas this week. Sure I suppose we (the country) could build a freeway in Houston, big enough to handle an exodus like this. But if we do this, won't we then have to build one for every other city in the country??? AND, that's just the roads. How many other bits of infrastructure do we have that aren't quite up to the "perfect storm"?? It just isn't possible to afford to build absolutely everything so that it can withstand the worst thing that could ever possibly happen. People need to get back to the idea that sometimes, you have to do the best you can with what you've got to work with.
>
>I know it was possible to get where everyone else isn't, because I had a friend that needed to get from the coast to somewhere west of Houston. Sure enough, he drove up to the freeway and found it jammed. He went back aout 10 miles and jumped on a county road and had clear sailing, all the way to where he was going. He figured the trip was about 15 miles longer than it would have been, had he stayed on the freeway. he managed to get where he was going in a couple hours, vs the couple days it would have taken on the freeway.
>
>Sometime when we've got all day we can sit and rant about all this for a few hours. I think most of our problems come more from human nature than the configuration of our facilities.
>
>Yes I do believe that gas taxes should be used for roads. IIRC that's what the tax was designed for in the first place.
>
>Rik
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>Sent: Sep 23, 2005 10:04 AM
>To: sanderico at earthlink.net, R22 List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] P-Horse shit and drinking.
>
>Rik,
>
>I have been addressing the how wide a freeway question for many years in
>different forums. California's answer to this question -- as wide as it
>takes -- has not worked. No surprise to me. I suspect, no surprise to you.
>
>You are/were a trucker? What do you think?
>
>The truckers lobby has worked hard to keep gasoline taxes earmarked for
>road building. Do you think this is a good thing? No politics here. I
>can see the issue from both sides.
>
>Bill Effros
>
>Rik Sandberg wrote:
>
>
>
>>Bill,
>>
>>It'll be interesting to see if Wally thinks I disagreed with him.
>>
>>I wonder, just how wide do we have to build a freeway just incase we
>>might have one major hurricane in in 20 or 30 years?
>>
>>Probably right about the proportions of horseshit vs drinking. :-)
>>
>>Rik
>>
>>Bill Effros wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Rik,
>>>
>>>Wally said the government didn't learn because it's evacuation plans
>>>hadn't been changed, but that he thought people would evacuate sooner
>>>in the face of Rita, because citizens had learned.
>>>
>>>Initially I took the other position, but then I saw the AP story, and
>>>said maybe I was wrong.
>>>
>>>As I understand what you have said, you are the one who is
>>>disagreeing with Wally.
>>>
>>>Now, I'm sure Rummy will soon note that we seem to have our
>>>proportions of horse shit and drinking reversed.
>>>
>>>Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>>Rik Sandberg wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bill,
>>>>
>>>>You've got a pretty darn strange way of "agreeing"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"This is the worst planning I've ever seen," said Judie Anderson,
>>>>>who covered just 45 miles in 12 hours after setting out from her
>>>>>home in the Houston suburb of LaPorte. "They say we've learned a
>>>>>lot from Hurricane Katrina. Well, you couldn't prove it by me."
>>>>>
>>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm with Wally. Didn't seem like "agreement" to me either.
>>>>
>>>>The gov't may have learned from Katrina, BUT it seems the people
>>>>didn't. They all act like a herd of cattle all trying to squeeze
>>>>through the barn door at the same time. Do any of them own a map?
>>>>have they never thought that there are state highways and county and
>>>>even township roads that go the same direction they want to go? No,
>>>>a million of them just mindlessly head for the freeway and can't
>>>>understand why there is a traffic problem.
>>>>
>>>>All this reliance on the gov't is turning people into a bunch of
>>>>mindless idiots.
>>>>
>>>>OH MY GOD .... there I go .... blaming the victims again.
>>>>
>>>>Rik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bill Effros wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Wally,
>>>>>
>>>>>I was agreeing with you. You made a point. I said I thought you
>>>>>were wrong. Then I saw this story. Then I said maybe you were
>>>>>right. Now you say I don't seem to understand....
>>>>>
>>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>>
>>>>>Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Bill,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I guess Julie Anderson hasn't learn much as well. There are always
>>>>>>traffic jams when they evacuate large cities. The larger the
>>>>>>population the bigger the problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>She is 45 miles away from Houston, the storm isn't due until
>>>>>>tomorrow. Shut up and keep driving. It sounds like she will be
>>>>>>safe. She is whining already and not a drop of rain. This just
>>>>>>goes to show how difficult the task is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There will always be problems with an evacuation of this size. You
>>>>>>don't seem to understand this. Nothing iis perfect. People are
>>>>>>free to leave when ever they want. You don't have to wait for a
>>>>>>government order.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wally
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] P-Horse shit and drinking.
>>>>>>>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:18:59 -0400
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wally,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Maybe you were right. This from the Associated Press:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"This is the worst planning I've ever seen," said Judie Anderson,
>>>>>>>who covered just 45 miles in 12 hours after setting out from her
>>>>>>>home in the Houston suburb of LaPorte. "They say we've learned a
>>>>>>>lot from Hurricane Katrina. Well, you couldn't prove it by me."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Bill,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I heard the mayors of Gavelston and Houston interviewed last
>>>>>>>>night. They were asked what changes they made to evac plan post
>>>>>>>>Katrina. The said basically none. They have spent years
>>>>>>>>educating the public about the dangers of hurricanes. They
>>>>>>>>talked about how hard they had trained for.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I think the real lessons learned were from the citizens. I have
>>>>>>>>a fealing people will take these storms more serioulsy in the
>>>>>>>>future.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Wally
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>>>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] P-Horse shit and drinking.
>>>>>>>>>Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:48:22 -0400
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Wally,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I did not mean to berate Herb, and I do understand how my
>>>>>>>>>comments could have been taken that way, and for that I
>>>>>>>>>apologize to Herb, and to the rest of the list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>What I was trying to say was that people on the scene can tell
>>>>>>>>>us what they see, but that those first hand accounts should not
>>>>>>>>>be confused with expertise about obscure laws that do not
>>>>>>>>>apply, or a special knowledge of the sequence of events which
>>>>>>>>>the observer did not see.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The Blind Men and the Elephant.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I am not blaming anyone for anything, except those who yell
>>>>>>>>>"Blame Game" over and over to obscure the facts, and then start
>>>>>>>>>flooding the Internet with completely false information. In my
>>>>>>>>>view that is dangerous, and someone must speak out against it.
>>>>>>>>>General Honore has done so, and I applaud him for it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The current situation with Rita is exactly the same as the
>>>>>>>>>situation with Katrina was, this many days before the hurricane
>>>>>>>>>hit. FEMA is in action. Local governments are doing their
>>>>>>>>>best. Pre-determined evacuation plans are being implemented on
>>>>>>>>>the local, state and federal levels. Things have been learned
>>>>>>>>>in the intervening 3 weeks, they are being applied, and we will
>>>>>>>>>surely have less loss of life this time around.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>And that is the reason it is so important to get the facts
>>>>>>>>>right, from the get-go, and not be lulled by a President who
>>>>>>>>>says, wrongly, again and again, "There is plenty of time for us
>>>>>>>>>to figure out what went wrong..." Well, there wasn't plenty of
>>>>>>>>>time to figure out what went wrong, and luckily many people
>>>>>>>>>started trying to figure it out and do something about it
>>>>>>>>>immediately..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Bill,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Herb provided us a first hand account of what he witnessed.
>>>>>>>>>>The man has been through hell and has still taken the time to
>>>>>>>>>>help. Why are you berating him? He never claimed he was an
>>>>>>>>>>expert.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I must admit I have to chuckly every time I see Busch on TV. I
>>>>>>>>>>think the guy is a clown. However he did not cause this. Not
>>>>>>>>>>to make light but in some ways the less hands on .....the less
>>>>>>>>>>he will screw up.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>It seems obvious that there wasn't a sound evacuation plan.
>>>>>>>>>>This is a local issue not federal. If we focus on seeking
>>>>>>>>>>blame this will happen again. If we focus on how local
>>>>>>>>>>governments can better prepare for these type emergencies the
>>>>>>>>>>citizens will be better off. If there were protocol issues fix
>>>>>>>>>>them. Blaming Bush solves nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Wally
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Horse shit and drinking.
>>>>>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:47:12 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Herb,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Driving a boat through muck does not qualify you as a
>>>>>>>>>>>jurisdictional expert in Federal Emergency Management. What
>>>>>>>>>>>you heard from people in the water, that they did what they
>>>>>>>>>>>were supposed to do, is correct. However, FEMA must
>>>>>>>>>>>coordinate the response to emergencies. That is its
>>>>>>>>>>>mandate. They don't need to get permission from anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>else--that's their job when emergencies occur.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>FEMA was like a deer in the headlights. First responders
>>>>>>>>>>>were turned away by FEMA officials in New Orleans. This did
>>>>>>>>>>>not happen in New York. I think we all agree that the heads
>>>>>>>>>>>of FEMA were incompetent political cronies. They will be
>>>>>>>>>>>gone. However, their superiors in the Federal Government did
>>>>>>>>>>>not take this matter seriously enough to interrupt what they
>>>>>>>>>>>were doing to oversee what was obviously a disaster.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Just like local officials in New York, the local officials in
>>>>>>>>>>>New Orleans did their best and screwed up. We lost 100s of
>>>>>>>>>>>first responders here in NYC due to the incompetence of our
>>>>>>>>>>>local politicians. But we saved thousands due to the prompt,
>>>>>>>>>>>if not always correct, actions of the Federal Government.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>The Federal Government was on vacation this August, but,
>>>>>>>>>>>unlike you, the individuals in positions of responsibility
>>>>>>>>>>>did not take time off from their vacations to deal with an
>>>>>>>>>>>emergency while it was happening.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This is part of a trend that has been noted often before.
>>>>>>>>>>>Let me point out, yet again, that on August 6, 2001 President
>>>>>>>>>>>Bush received a memo from the CIA, while vacationing on his
>>>>>>>>>>>ranch, entitled: "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US". The
>>>>>>>>>>>President did not interrupt his vacation for that one, either.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>You're leaving out one major factor in the comparison. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>FAA has jurisdiction over flights. The Mayor of New Orleans
>>>>>>>>>>>>has jurisdiction over the city, the Governor over the state
>>>>>>>>>>>>of Louisiana. I'm going to repeat this, from what I heard at
>>>>>>>>>>>>the scene, the Coast Guard in Alexandria was ready BEFORE
>>>>>>>>>>>>the storm hit. Their services were offered to the state, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>state declined, putting their game wardens in charge. Once
>>>>>>>>>>>>the feds were released to act, they acted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>It's a popular misconception for folks to talk about "not
>>>>>>>>>>>>answering the phone" when the President is on "vacation." He
>>>>>>>>>>>>has a phone when he's on vacation. He has an office when
>>>>>>>>>>>>he's on vacation. It's that type of hyperbole that
>>>>>>>>>>>>diminishes credibility for those that employ it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>BTW, I was on "vacation" when I was in New Orleans. I've got
>>>>>>>>>>>>the pay stubs to prove it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>S/V O'Jure
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1976 O'Day 25
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lake Grapevine, N TX
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>S/V Reve de Papa
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1971 Coronado 35
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bill at effros.com 9/20/2005 8:09:56 AM >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Herb,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>In early 2001 FEMA identified the 3 most catastrophic
>>>>>>>>>>>>situations it might some day have to address. They were:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>1. A terrorist attack on NYC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>2. A major earthquake in San Francisco.
>>>>>>>>>>>>3. A levee break in New Orleans.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On September 11, 2001, 37 minutes after the take-off of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>first hijacked airplane, the FAA requested that military
>>>>>>>>>>>>aircraft scramble to help deal with the known hijacking.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Within 9 minutes there were military aircraft in the sky. 4
>>>>>>>>>>>>minutes later, the military received notice that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>airplane they were trying to find had just hit the World
>>>>>>>>>>>>Trade Center. The President of the United States, on his
>>>>>>>>>>>>way to a "Photo Op" in a school in Florida, was immediately
>>>>>>>>>>>>informed. He told reporters before entering the school that
>>>>>>>>>>>>he was aware of the fact that a plane had smashed into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>World Trade Center. 3 minutes later the FAA determined that
>>>>>>>>>>>>a second aircraft had been hijacked, and immediately the FAA
>>>>>>>>>>>>began contacting and diverting airplanes. 7 minutes later a
>>>>>>>>>>>>different FAA flight controller called a different military
>>>>>>>>>>>>installation to request help. A minute later, another FAA
>>>>>>>>>>>>flight controller, in yet another part of the country called
>>>>>>>>>>>>another military unit to request aircraft be scrambled.
>>>>>>>>>>>>None of these flight controllers knew that the others had
>>>>>>>>>>>>acted. The military did not know that it had received
>>>>>>>>>>>>multiple requests. 8 minutes later there were multiple
>>>>>>>>>>>>military fighter jets over Long Island. 5 minutes later the
>>>>>>>>>>>>fighters were moved over Manhattan. A minute later jets
>>>>>>>>>>>>were scrambled from Langly AFB in Virginia and sent up to
>>>>>>>>>>>>NYC because the fighters over NYC were running low on fuel.
>>>>>>>>>>>>8 minutes later the FAA closed all NYC airports. 4 minutes
>>>>>>>>>>>>later the Port Authority of NYC closed all bridges and
>>>>>>>>>>>>tunnels. 1 minute later the FAA told Dulles air controllers
>>>>>>>>>>>>to watch for incoming hijacked aircraft. 4 minutes later
>>>>>>>>>>>>the military established a combat air patrol over Manhattan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>and, at the same time, the FAA grounded all aircraft all
>>>>>>>>>>>>over the country. 5 minutes later, the President of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>United States went on National TV to announce that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>country had suffered "an apparent terrorist attack". 15
>>>>>>>>>>>>minutes later the White House was evacuated. 12 minutes
>>>>>>>>>>>>later the President left Florida for an Air Force Base in
>>>>>>>>>>>>Louisiana. 9 minutes later the South Tower of the World
>>>>>>>>>>>>Trade Center collapsed. 5 minutes later part of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>Pentagon collapsed. 9 minutes later the UN building was
>>>>>>>>>>>>evacuated. 15 minutes later the North Tower of the World
>>>>>>>>>>>>Trade Center collapsed. 17 minutes later all Federal
>>>>>>>>>>>>buildings in Washington DC were evacuated. 7 minutes later,
>>>>>>>>>>>>all DC area airports were closed. 10 minutes later the
>>>>>>>>>>>>Mayor of NYC ordered the evacuation of everyone south of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>World Trade Center. 2 hours and 2 minutes later, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>President of the United States, speaking from Barksdale AFB
>>>>>>>>>>>>in Louisiana, said the US military has been put on high
>>>>>>>>>>>>alert world wide. 44 minutes later the President of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>United States flew to an Air Force base in Nebraska. 4
>>>>>>>>>>>>hours and 53 minutes later, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld
>>>>>>>>>>>>announced that the Pentagon had re-opened and was conducting
>>>>>>>>>>>>business. 13 minutes later the President returned to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>White House from Omaha, Nebraska. By this time, FEMA was on
>>>>>>>>>>>>the ground, inside both New York City and Washington DC
>>>>>>>>>>>>coordinating the nation's response to the disaster.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Now let's compare that response to the Federal Government's
>>>>>>>>>>>>response to Hurricane Katrina.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Friday, August 26 the State of Louisiana declared a state
>>>>>>>>>>>>of emergency because it was clear that hurricane Katrina was
>>>>>>>>>>>>going to strike somewhere on the Louisiana coast. FEMA was
>>>>>>>>>>>>automatically notified.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Saturday, August 27, FEMA took no action to mitigate what
>>>>>>>>>>>>was sure to be a major disaster somewhere on the Gulf Coast.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Sunday, August 28, the National Weather Service posted
>>>>>>>>>>>>this warning under the headline :
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>''Hurricane Katrina. A most powerful hurricane with
>>>>>>>>>>>>unprecedented strength.".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>>>longer...Power outages will last for weeks...Water shortages
>>>>>>>>>>>>will make human suffering incredible by modern standards.''
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>The warning had been written years earlier. Only the name
>>>>>>>>>>>>of the hurricane was inserted at the last minute. There was
>>>>>>>>>>>>no question that the hurricane would strike somewhere along
>>>>>>>>>>>>the Gulf Coast of the United States, resulting in massive
>>>>>>>>>>>>loss of life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>The President of the United States immediately issued a
>>>>>>>>>>>>declaration of emergency for the Gulf Coast region. He also
>>>>>>>>>>>>found time to cut a cake for John McCain, play a guitar for
>>>>>>>>>>>>Mark Wills, deliver an address about V-J day, and stay at
>>>>>>>>>>>>his ranch to continue his vacation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>The Mayor of New Orleans issued a mandatory evacuation order
>>>>>>>>>>>>for the entire city.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Monday, August 29, the hurricane hit, at 6:10 am narrowly
>>>>>>>>>>>>missing New Orleans, but flattening several cities to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>East. The loss of life in one small town in Mississippi was
>>>>>>>>>>>>immediately known to be greater than the total loss of life
>>>>>>>>>>>>resulting from 3 hurricanes that hit Florida the previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>year which resulted in a massive and immediate federal
>>>>>>>>>>>>disaster relief response just prior to a Presidential
>>>>>>>>>>>>election in a state with 25 electoral votes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>10,000 people who were unable to leave New Orleans were
>>>>>>>>>>>>already being sheltered in the Superdome as part of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>emergency evacuation procedure devised by disaster
>>>>>>>>>>>>mitigation experts from FEMA. It was known that they had no
>>>>>>>>>>>>food or water, and that it was the responsibility of FEMA to
>>>>>>>>>>>>provide everything they would need to safely evacuate the
>>>>>>>>>>>>victims.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>The President remained on vacation. The head of FEMA went
>>>>>>>>>>>>to Baton Rouge. The Vice President remained on vacation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>The Head of Homeland security remained on vacation. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>Secretary of State remained on vacation. Congress remained
>>>>>>>>>>>>on vacation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Local officials on the ground knew that their resources had
>>>>>>>>>>>>been overwhelmed, and they knew they needed massive and
>>>>>>>>>>>>immediate Federal assistance. Federal aid was the primary
>>>>>>>>>>>>component of disaster response to a tragedy of this
>>>>>>>>>>>>magnitude. But the Federal Government simply was not
>>>>>>>>>>>>answering the phone. They were on vacation, and too busy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Then the levee broke in New Orleans.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Actually Rummy, I don't live in another country, nor am I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>basing what I say on watching "the news much". I spoke
>>>>>>>>>>>>>personally with the commander on duty at the Coast Guard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>staging area in Alexandria. He had the resources in place,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>waiting in Alexandria. He was waiting for permission FROM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>THE STATE to send them in. The STATE chose to have their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>resources in place, namely the Louisiana Fish and Wildlife
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Department (yep, that's right Governor Blanco chose to put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>her state's game wardens in charge of recovery, instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>the feds, who are trained to do that.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I was there friend, I saw it first hand. I saw the news
>>>>>>>>>>>>>cameras on site at the barricades, in their air conditioned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>portables studios. On the other hand, out in the streets,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>there were a few print media folks, but very few. The only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>video crew I saw "out in the field" was with the Air
>>>>>>>>>>>>>National Guard. The rest of the folks didn't want to stray
>>>>>>>>>>>>>far from their portable studios. And, in spite of your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>absolute belief that it was the news media that brought
>>>>>>>>>>>>>about change is as misguided and misinformed as the rest of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>the nonsense you seem to be subscribing to.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>But, that wasn't the point of what I was saying at all. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>point was folks can stand around pointing fingers at others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>all they want, but that gets NOTHING done. Before anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>complains about what someone else did or did not do, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>should ask themselves what THEY did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I view the governments role to fill in where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>individuals can't (I can't personally build a highway, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>field an army), but that does NOT relieve the individual of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>their duty when the need arises. I went to NO because I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>couldn't be me and NOT go. My boss instructed me to stop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>thanking him for letting me take off, that he did so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>because it's what he had to do. My wife and children told
>>>>>>>>>>>>>me to stop apologizing for missing my wife's 50 birthday
>>>>>>>>>>>>>party, that they missed me, but that what I was doing was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>more important.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Everywhere I went, and this isn't hearing it from a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>television reporter looking for ratings, or an ex-first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>lady trying to position herself for the next presidential
>>>>>>>>>>>>>vacancy, EVERYWHERE I went, I saw people first hand doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>what they could do; whether it was giving me some gas cans
>>>>>>>>>>>>>so we can put gas in our DUKW, or handing a baby to our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>crew on the boat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>THAT my friend, is what "we" are. We AREN'T the whimpering
>>>>>>>>>>>>>whining media, or the jostling politicians looking to gain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>ratings numbers on the Neilson or the latest poll on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>backs of those that lost everything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Oh, and for whatever it's worth, I'm still getting in boat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>time too. Mast going up got delayed by a few days because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>of the trip, but it went up today. It had to, our sail club
>>>>>>>>>>>>>is taking a group of handicapped kids out sailing this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>weekend, and I committed and need to be ready.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>THAT's the country I live in, since you asked.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Now, go have your drink, and watch your game.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>S/V O'Jure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>1976 O'Day 25
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lake Grapevine, N TX
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>S/V Reve de Papa
>>>>>>>>>>>>>1971 Coronado 35
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>R22RumRunner at aol.com 9/19/2005 8:54:09 PM >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Herb,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>You either live in a different country or don't watch the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>news much. Our gov't sat on their collective hands and did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>nothing for the people of NO for five, yes count them,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>five days. And then it was only after the news media made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>them look as stupid as they collectively are that they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>decided to finally do something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>The governments own weather person said this was going to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>be a devastating storm 24 hours before it struck. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>certainly had time to react, but no, those idiots in FEMA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>(not trained in emergency management) didn't know what to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>do. Hell, I could go on and on and rehash the same shit,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>but I won't. There's more important things to attend to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>tonight, like watching football and drinking. Remember, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>shot in the glass is better than one in the ass.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rummy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>
>
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