[Rhodes22-list] Boom Room Update

[Slim]

Dave,

Not true.  That's exactly what I have--solid panels OR screens the same
size--a la carte.

Slim

On 2/2/06 10:16 PM, "David Bradley" <dwbrad at gmail.com> wrote:

> Bill, one clarification.  Stan does not have a completed design for
> the interchangeable panels, but believes it is the right concept to
> develop.  The idea we kicked around was to make the side panels as
> similar as possible to allow for maximum flexibility and lowest cost,
> then let people buy a la carte.  I think this is a more evolved
> concept than what Slim has now, but as you say, it's headed in that
> direction.
> 
> 
> Dave
> 
> On 2/2/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>> Dave,
>> 
>> How exciting!  Nice job.  Couldn't have hoped for better!
>> 
>> Slim,
>> 
>> The pictures posted were fine for us all to get a look at your rig.  It
>> is very different from the boom room posted on the GB site, and I think
>> most of us couldn't understand what was wrong with it as far as Stan was
>> concerned.  It looked good to us, and several people took the time to
>> say so.  Clearly you get a lot of use out of it, and you are in a
>> position to give us lots of pointers.  Yours is the prototype, and we
>> will listen more closely than usual to what you have to say on this matter.
>> 
>> As soon as I have time, I will post pictures I have gathered showing
>> dodger/awning combinations developed by marine canvas fabricators.  This
>> is the approach Stan seems to have rejected, and that's good enough for
>> me.  These designs seem to run in the $5000+ range.  I am posting them
>> only for reference.
>> 
>> As I understand Dave's report, Stan has developed a fairly simple set of
>> interchangeable panels that will work on any R-22, and maybe many other
>> boats as well.  He has advised us to stay away from the costly marine
>> fabricators and develop local talent to produce a standard product.
>> 
>> Stan feels the load bearing frame can be improved, without the need to
>> change the fabric panels--so we can develop patterns without regard to
>> the final frame design--the frame must fit the panels, and not the other
>> way around.  One size panels fits all size boats.  No prior purchase
>> necessary.
>> 
>> OK -- so who is still in?  I'm in for every panel we make.  I know Dave
>> is in.  Slim has a PVC frame we can use as a frame pattern and
>> prototype.  What material shall we use for the first frame we make?  Is
>> wood an option for a prototype?  (We have people on the list who are
>> very good with wood.)  Stainless Steel?  Aluminum?  Can we use
>> telescoping boat poles with custom fittings on the ends to link them
>> together?
>> 
>> How much do we think this will cost?  We have to leave enough money to
>> pay for replacement frames for early failed prototypes.  Can the panels
>> be made of better or lesser materials depending on the intended use?
>> 
>> First we have to sort out who is still in.  The project will move
>> forward even if the answer is "nobody but Bill".  Early adopters will
>> buy at cost, and their needs will be more heavily factored into the
>> final design of the project.
>> 
>> Thanks to all who have helped get us to this point.  Your input,
>> thoughts, grumblings will improve the final design--please keep them coming.
>> 
>> I'm going off to look at Slim's pictures again.  The ones I have show a
>> lot of detail (I work on a 20" screen, and there is a lot of detail in
>> what I have downloaded.)  If I need to see more, I will surely ask.
>> Luckily, Stan has already seen what Slim has, and that's probably the
>> most important thing.
>> 
>> Back to work.  I'm still running behind.
>> 
>> Bill Effros
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> David Bradley wrote:
>> 
>>> I had the great pleasure of visiting Stan and Rose yesterday at GBI
>>> world headquarters in Edenton.  In between looking at my beautiful new
>>> R22 in mid-production and a nice dinner (at Waterman's), we talked at
>>> length about the boom room project.
>>> 
>>> At the risk of not relaying it completely accurately, here is Stan's
>>> thinking on a "best" boom room design.  (Stan, please correct me as
>>> needed.)
>>> 
>>> Boom Room Design Parameters:
>>> 
>>> 1.  Primary use is for overnight camping, and design should maximize
>>> benefits for this primary usage.
>>> 
>>> 2.  Not integrated with Pop Top Enclosure - removes complexity factor
>>> and improves economics/ease of set-up.
>>> 
>>> 3.  Fabric is sail cloth, with roof panel treated for water resistance.
>>> 
>>> 4.  Roof panel rests on top of boom as main support beam.
>>> 
>>> 5.  Must have rigid frame at roof panel perimeter; other roof support
>>> members TBD.
>>>        a.  Evaluate frame materials for lightweight rigid frame that
>>> is easy to store
>>>        b.  Consider aluminum tubes with crimp/socket connections, and
>>> shock cords
>>>        c.  Explore design for "yokes" to fit over boom as supporting
>>> "rafters"
>>>             (see drawings if I can figure out how to attach)
>>> 
>>> 6.  Multiple side/front/rear panels with optional screen and clear
>>> plastic sections.
>>> 
>>> 7.  Side/rear panels zip in place and snap to gunwale; taught snapped
>>> panels provide lateral roof support; no need to attach to stays.
>>>        a.  Lower boom slightly to assemble, then raise boom to tension
>>> panels
>>>        b.  If using roof panel only as shade tent, run cords/straps
>>> from perimeter
>>>             frame to gunwales for lateral support
>>> 
>>> 8.  Front panel snaps across cabin trunk top, leaving hatches outside boom
>>> room
>>> 
>>> 9.  Forward edge is in front of mast and inside forward side shrouds;
>>> aft side shrouds are disconnected for boom room set-up; topping lift
>>> line runs next to mast; roof panel seals around mast.
>>> 
>>> 10.  Rear panel fastens inside rear stays and stern rail and snaps to
>>> gunwale, with enough tension to ensure rain will slide down the angeld
>>> surface; evaluate whether a "shoulder" can be created by adding ties
>>> to stern rail (similar to how an umbrella tent has outside ties to the
>>> exterior frame).
>>> 
>>> Net, the design that Slim has (which Stan made for the original owner)
>>> is pretty close to what Stan thinks is optimal.  The idea of multiple
>>> panel options (solid, screen and clear) gives it the Rhodes
>>> flexibility and quality, while keeping sizes down.  Where he has never
>>> been happy is with frame designs.  He leans toward aluminum or
>>> stainless with the "crimp and socket" (somebody tell me if there's a
>>> techincal term) type fitting and shock cords used in tents.  The
>>> individual pieces need to be short enough to fit under cockpit seats
>>> or in lazarette.
>>> 
>>> Stan is more than happy to have some help in project managing this,
>>> which Bill and I are doing for now.  Stan will advise as we go.  He
>>> thinks we should work with small fabricators to get a prototype built
>>> vs. working with someone "in the sailboat business."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Next Steps:
>>> 
>>> 1.  Finalize design specs and obtain firm committments.
>>> 
>>> 2.  Create prototype, beginning with frame fabricator.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please reply with comments and suggestions.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Dave Bradley
>>> 
>>> P.S.  I tried attaching a jpeg file with drawings.  First is of an
>>> idea Stan has for a yoke that would also serve as a support rafter for
>>> roof panel.  Second is a not-to-scale sketch of the numbers and types
>>> of interchangeable panels.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Name: Slide1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 27841 bytes Desc: not available
>>> Url: 
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200602/02/Slide1.jpg
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> Url: 
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200602/02/Slide2.jpg
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
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> 
> 
> --
> David Bradley
> 203.253.9973
> dwbrad at gmail.com
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