[Rhodes22-list] anchoring obsession

[Michel Meltzer]

Bill the current is an example of the general problem, which is, how do
you set anchor from a moving boat? Is could be from current, wind, wave
etc.. Extra points if you have no motor(motor failer) and have no time
to set sail, the east river is a fine example but any confined space is
saying "little time" to get stopped before something bad happens. -mjm 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org [mailto:rhodes22-list-
> bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 4:12 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring obsession
> 
> Peter,
> 
> Since we have both sailed down the East River (did you actually sail
or
> did you motor? -- in an R-22 or a different boat?) I will confine my
> remarks to that body of water--as soon as I can get back to it--not
> now.  I assume you were traveling in the direction of the flow?
> 
> Bill Effros
> 
> Peter Thorn wrote:
> 
> >Bill,
> >
> >Two years ago, sailing down the East River, the current was about
that.
> In
> >Beaufort, NC (where Bill W anchored) there can be some pretty strong
> >currents as the Altlantic makes it's way through the inlets during
tidal
> >changes. We're planning a Cape Lokout trip later, so it's possible.
I
> don't
> >think anchoring in a 5 knot current is likely, but if it can be done
I
> sure
> >would like to know how.
> >
> >PT
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 2:37 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring obsession
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Peter,
> >>
> >>I'm back.  Just like you, more interested in this than in what I'm
> >>supposed to be doing.
> >>
> >>I'm going to break my replies to your comments into subject headings
so
> >>anyone trying to follow doesn't have to read the whole thing.
> >>
> >>Do you actually sail in waters where there is a 5 kt. current?  Have
you
> >>ever sailed in a 5 kt. current?  Where?
> >>
> >>Bill Effros
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Peter Thorn wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi Mary Lou,
> >>>
> >>>It's quite windy and blowing in cold here and could get as low as
28
> >>>tonight!   My skipper cancelled the NYRA winter series racing at
> >>>
> >>>
> >Blackbeard
> >
> >
> >>>SC on the Neuse River, so I spent most of the morning messing
around
> with
> >>>that Anchor Catenary program Ron attached.
> >>>
> >>>Using my imagined problem of being stuck out in the Pamlico, out of
> sight
> >>>
> >>>
> >of
> >
> >
> >>>land, in 20' of water over a muck bottom, using Raven's storm
anchor
> >>>
> >>>
> >(FX11,
> >
> >
> >>>16' chain, 150' 3/8" three stand nylon all out), and setting the
Kellet
> >>>
> >>>
> >at
> >
> >
> >>>75', here are the results:
> >>>
> >>>       Kellet = 0#  =  95.2#
> >>>       Kellet = 10  = 131.5
> >>>       Kellet = 20  = 168.0
> >>>
> >>>Now it's just a matter of trying to figure out what these results
> >>>
> >>>
> >actually
> >
> >
> >>>mean.  I'm a builder, not a genius.  My guess is that, with the
> catenary
> >>>shape described by the graph shown on the catenary analyzer
program,
> >>>
> >>>
> >those
> >
> >
> >>>are the various horizontal thrust forces holding each particular
> catenary
> >>>profile shape in equilibrium against an infinitely strong anchor.
So,
> a
> >>>
> >>>
> >10#
> >
> >
> >>>Kellet provides a 38% increase and a 20# Kellet provides a 76%
increase
> >>>
> >>>
> >in
> >
> >
> >>>the force needed to hold each's catenary shape versus no Kellet at
all.
> >>>
> >>>
> >If
> >
> >
> >>>my guess is right, then a Kellet does help quite a bit, adding
> >>>
> >>>
> >significantly
> >
> >
> >>>to the "shock absorber effect" Rik wrote about.
> >>>
> >>>Yes, we use a 10# steel mushroom anchor on 3/8 nylon as a lunch
hook.
> >>>
> >>>
> >Works
> >
> >
> >>>well in any mud bottom and doesn't seem to snag on the stumps in
Kerr
> >>>
> >>>
> >Lake
> >
> >
> >>>the Army Corp of Engineers forgot to grub out before they filled
the
> lake
> >>>
> >>>
> >in
> >
> >
> >>>the '60s.
> >>>
> >>>So... I'm thinking about modifying the 10# mushroom anchor with
another
> >>>quick link (through its nylon rode eye) and a big S hook to ride
down
> the
> >>>storm anchor rode as a make-shift Kellet.  This capital investment
> might
> >>>
> >>>
> >be
> >
> >
> >>>a whopping $5, so there's not much to loose by trying.  A possible
> >>>enhancement is to melt down some lead tire weights on a Coleman
stove
> >>>outside and pour 2 or 3 cups of hot lead weight into the mushroom
bell.
> >>>Maybe that's too obsessive-- even for me.
> >>>
> >>>The big worry is getting caught halfway to Ocracoke in a summer
storm.
> >>>
> >>>
> >Out
> >
> >
> >>>in the middle you lose sight of land for about an hour and there's
no
> >>>
> >>>
> >place
> >
> >
> >>>to hide.  The wind driven waves are short and square.  They come up
> fast,
> >>>
> >>>
> >so
> >
> >
> >>>having a method ready to keep the bow to the wind would be very
good
> >>>
> >>>
> >indeed.
> >
> >
> >>>That Boy Scout training never goes away.
> >>>
> >>>Late last October at Silver Lake on Ocracoke at 5:30am a local
storm
> hit
> >>>
> >>>
> >our
> >
> >
> >>>trailer sailor group.  55 Knot winds were reported on WX.  Raven,
with
> >>>
> >>>
> >the
> >
> >
> >>>pop top cover up, heeled 30 degrees against her docklines.  It was
gone
> >>>
> >>>
> >in
> >
> >
> >>>30 minutes, but imagine being out in that!
> >>>
> >>>PT
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: "Mary Lou Troy" <mltroy at verizon.net>
> >>>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 11:41 AM
> >>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring obsession
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Peter,
> >>>>My purely theoretical take on this - having never used a kellet,
is
> that
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>it
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>might help - particularly if the winds were not very steady or if
> there
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>was
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>wave action.
> >>>>
> >>>>Have you used the mushroom much as a lunch hook?
> >>>>
> >>>>Mary Lou
> >>>>1991 R22 Fretless
> >>>>Ft. Washington, PA / Swan Creek, MD
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>At 04:29 PM 1/13/2006 -0500, you wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>GlacierRon, Dave, Bill or anybody:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>You have me thinking about anchors and not getting any work done
:)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Suppose I'm out in the Pamlico Sound, with it's mucky bottom in
20'
> of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>water
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>and a squall comes up.  Would it help to use the lunch hook, a
10#
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >steel
> >
> >
> >>>>>mushroom anchor with a 3/8" nylon rode, as a Kellet  shackled to
the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>storm
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>anchor rode?   The storm anchor is FX11 Fortress with 16' of 1/4"
> proof
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>coil
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>chain plus 3/8" three strand nylon rode?  Or, could it just make
> things
> >>>>>worse?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Any thoughts welcome.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>PT
> >>>>>
> >>>>>__________________________________________________
> >>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>__________________________________________________
> >>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>__________________________________________________
> >>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>__________________________________________________
> >>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
> >
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