[Rhodes22-list] anchoring obsession

Sat Jan 14 16:47:44 EST 2006

Michael and Bill,

Is it really the same problem?  In current, the anchor and everything else
is swept along the bottom with the current.  I imagine it might be easier to
set from a moving boat but in still water.  The flukes, being dragged, might
catch and "sail" through the still water, plunge down and set.  Drifting
with a current there would be no fluke steerage, just everything being swept
along.

--------------------

I suppose that is a loose use of the term sailing.  7/2/2003, Mac26x, 50hp
at 2,000 rpm ~ 2-3 knots, ballast tank full, one rudder down -- it's a Mac
thing.    Passed under Throgs Neck Bridge after flood tide.  At one point
GPS had us 8 knots over the bottom later than morning near Brooklyn Bridge.
We really had no desire to anchor that day.  New York's Finest boat cops
probably wouldn't have allowed it anyway.  They were in high security mode
so close to the 4th.

PT

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michel Meltzer" <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 4:19 PM
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring obsession

> Bill the current is an example of the general problem, which is, how do
> you set anchor from a moving boat? Is could be from current, wind, wave
> etc.. Extra points if you have no motor(motor failer) and have no time
> to set sail, the east river is a fine example but any confined space is
> saying "little time" to get stopped before something bad happens. -mjm
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org [mailto:rhodes22-list-
> > bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 4:12 PM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring obsession
> >
> > Peter,
> >
> > Since we have both sailed down the East River (did you actually sail
> or
> > did you motor? -- in an R-22 or a different boat?) I will confine my
> > remarks to that body of water--as soon as I can get back to it--not
> > now.  I assume you were traveling in the direction of the flow?
> >
> > Bill Effros
> >
> > Peter Thorn wrote:
> >
> > >Bill,
> > >
> > >Two years ago, sailing down the East River, the current was about
> that.
> > In
> > >Beaufort, NC (where Bill W anchored) there can be some pretty strong
> > >currents as the Altlantic makes it's way through the inlets during
> tidal
> > >changes. We're planning a Cape Lokout trip later, so it's possible.
> I
> > don't
> > >think anchoring in a 5 knot current is likely, but if it can be done
> I
> > sure
> > >would like to know how.
> > >
> > >PT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> > >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 2:37 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring obsession
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>Peter,
> > >>
> > >>I'm back.  Just like you, more interested in this than in what I'm
> > >>supposed to be doing.
> > >>
> > >>I'm going to break my replies to your comments into subject headings
> so
> > >>anyone trying to follow doesn't have to read the whole thing.
> > >>
> > >>Do you actually sail in waters where there is a 5 kt. current?  Have
> you
> > >>ever sailed in a 5 kt. current?  Where?
> > >>
> > >>Bill Effros
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Peter Thorn wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Hi Mary Lou,
> > >>>
> > >>>It's quite windy and blowing in cold here and could get as low as
> 28
> > >>>tonight!   My skipper cancelled the NYRA winter series racing at
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >Blackbeard
> > >
> > >
> > >>>SC on the Neuse River, so I spent most of the morning messing
> around
> > with
> > >>>that Anchor Catenary program Ron attached.
> > >>>
> > >>>Using my imagined problem of being stuck out in the Pamlico, out of
> > sight
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >of
> > >
> > >
> > >>>land, in 20' of water over a muck bottom, using Raven's storm
> anchor
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >(FX11,
> > >
> > >
> > >>>16' chain, 150' 3/8" three stand nylon all out), and setting the
> Kellet
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >at
> > >
> > >
> > >>>75', here are the results:
> > >>>
> > >>>       Kellet = 0#  =  95.2#
> > >>>       Kellet = 10  = 131.5
> > >>>       Kellet = 20  = 168.0
> > >>>
> > >>>Now it's just a matter of trying to figure out what these results
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >actually
> > >
> > >
> > >>>mean.  I'm a builder, not a genius.  My guess is that, with the
> > catenary
> > >>>shape described by the graph shown on the catenary analyzer
> program,
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >those
> > >
> > >
> > >>>are the various horizontal thrust forces holding each particular
> > catenary
> > >>>profile shape in equilibrium against an infinitely strong anchor.
> So,
> > a
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >10#
> > >
> > >
> > >>>Kellet provides a 38% increase and a 20# Kellet provides a 76%
> increase
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >in
> > >
> > >
> > >>>the force needed to hold each's catenary shape versus no Kellet at
> all.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >If
> > >
> > >
> > >>>my guess is right, then a Kellet does help quite a bit, adding
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >significantly
> > >
> > >
> > >>>to the "shock absorber effect" Rik wrote about.
> > >>>
> > >>>Yes, we use a 10# steel mushroom anchor on 3/8 nylon as a lunch
> hook.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >Works
> > >
> > >
> > >>>well in any mud bottom and doesn't seem to snag on the stumps in
> Kerr
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >Lake
> > >
> > >
> > >>>the Army Corp of Engineers forgot to grub out before they filled
> the
> > lake
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >in
> > >
> > >
> > >>>the '60s.
> > >>>
> > >>>So... I'm thinking about modifying the 10# mushroom anchor with
> another
> > >>>quick link (through its nylon rode eye) and a big S hook to ride
> down
> > the
> > >>>storm anchor rode as a make-shift Kellet.  This capital investment
> > might
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >be
> > >
> > >
> > >>>a whopping $5, so there's not much to loose by trying.  A possible
> > >>>enhancement is to melt down some lead tire weights on a Coleman
> stove
> > >>>outside and pour 2 or 3 cups of hot lead weight into the mushroom
> bell.
> > >>>Maybe that's too obsessive-- even for me.
> > >>>
> > >>>The big worry is getting caught halfway to Ocracoke in a summer
> storm.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >Out
> > >
> > >
> > >>>in the middle you lose sight of land for about an hour and there's
> no
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >place
> > >
> > >
> > >>>to hide.  The wind driven waves are short and square.  They come up
> > fast,
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >so
> > >
> > >
> > >>>having a method ready to keep the bow to the wind would be very
> good
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >indeed.
> > >
> > >
> > >>>That Boy Scout training never goes away.
> > >>>
> > >>>Late last October at Silver Lake on Ocracoke at 5:30am a local
> storm
> > hit
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >our
> > >
> > >
> > >>>trailer sailor group.  55 Knot winds were reported on WX.  Raven,
> with
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >the
> > >
> > >
> > >>>pop top cover up, heeled 30 degrees against her docklines.  It was
> gone
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >in
> > >
> > >
> > >>>30 minutes, but imagine being out in that!
> > >>>
> > >>>PT
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>----- Original Message -----
> > >>>From: "Mary Lou Troy" <mltroy at verizon.net>
> > >>>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >>>Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 11:41 AM
> > >>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring obsession
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Peter,
> > >>>>My purely theoretical take on this - having never used a kellet,
> is
> > that
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>it
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>might help - particularly if the winds were not very steady or if
> > there
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>was
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>wave action.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Have you used the mushroom much as a lunch hook?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Mary Lou
> > >>>>1991 R22 Fretless
> > >>>>Ft. Washington, PA / Swan Creek, MD
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>At 04:29 PM 1/13/2006 -0500, you wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>GlacierRon, Dave, Bill or anybody:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>You have me thinking about anchors and not getting any work done
> :)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Suppose I'm out in the Pamlico Sound, with it's mucky bottom in
> 20'
> > of
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>water
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>and a squall comes up.  Would it help to use the lunch hook, a
> 10#
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >steel
> > >
> > >
> > >>>>>mushroom anchor with a 3/8" nylon rode, as a Kellet  shackled to
> the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>storm
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>anchor rode?   The storm anchor is FX11 Fortress with 16' of 1/4"
> > proof
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>coil
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>chain plus 3/8" three strand nylon rode?  Or, could it just make
> > things
> > >>>>>worse?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Any thoughts welcome.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>PT
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>__________________________________________________
> > >>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>__________________________________________________
> > >>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>__________________________________________________
> > >>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>__________________________________________________
> > >>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > __________________________________________________
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>
> __________________________________________________
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