[Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David

Sat Jun 24 23:07:03 EDT 2006

Elle,
        I like the way you phrase things!
Chris G
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "L. Sailor" <watermusic38 at yahoo.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David


> Y'all think too much.
> 
>  Too loose, the mast falls down. Too tight, you've
> shortened the mast & increased the length of the
> centerboard.
> 
> Elle
> 
> --- Todd Zumach <zoomerzx at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > At the risk of getting flamed, I will add my input
> > to this conversation.
> > 
> > 1.  I have a hard copy of the manual and have read
> > it multiple times (it is
> > good reading).
> > 
> > 2.  I am not an engineer, but I am the type of
> > person who would prefer
> > concrete numbers to concepts like "hand tighten".  I
> > also suffer from
> > "Gorillaitis", that is, I tend to over tighten, use
> > too much force, or a
> > bigger hammer at times and have broken a few things
> > in my days.
> > 
> > 3.  I have read other sources regarding shroud
> > tension and have found both
> > "keep them loose" and "keep them tight" opinions. 
> > One point that I thougt
> > seemed reasonable was that a rig that was "too
> > loose", would allow actually
> > allow shock loads to occur.  That author suggested
> > that the lee side should
> > should not go noticably slack.
> > 
> > 4.  The previous owner of my R22 showed me how tight
> > he kept the shrouds and
> > urged me to not over tighten by using a pliers.  He
> > also told me to make
> > sure to hold on to the shroud above the turnbucke in
> > order to keep the
> > shroud from twisting.  I do use a small wrench to
> > hold on to the shroud to
> > keep it from twisting and use my hand to tighten the
> > turnbuckle.
> > 
> > 5.  I have read the spec from Roger's post and based
> > on other noted
> > suggestions I do not tighten quite as tight as he
> > recommended.
> > 
> > 6.  How do I know how tight are the shrouds?  I
> > asked received a Loos guage
> > as a gift (per my request).
> > 
> > 7.  I have only used the guage for this spring's
> > initial set up and choose
> > set up the lower shrouds at 120 pounds and the upper
> > at 150 pounds.  Those
> > were determined by playing with the tension until
> > the all felt "good" and
> > then measuring with the guage.
> > 
> > 8.  Next week, when I put the boat back in the
> > water, I will use the guage
> > again and confirm my settings and report back to the
> > group.
> > 
> > Capn Z
> > Phillips, WI
> > 
> > On 6/24/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Oh, please...
> > >
> > > This is like a discussion of how hard to slam a
> > car door.  You only have
> > > to slam it hard enough to close.  The car can take
> > a harder slam, but
> > > you are not accomplishing anything good for the
> > car by slamming the door
> > > harder.
> > >
> > > We should banish Loos gauges from this list.  They
> > are supposed to be
> > > calibrated for the type and size of stay they are
> > measuring.  They don't
> > > measure in pounds--you interpolate index numbers.
> > >
> > > Where the hell did 200 pounds come from, anyhow?
> > >
> > > Is that 200 pounds when the other 8 shrouds are
> > slack, or 200 pounds
> > > when the other 8 shrouds also each show 200
> > pounds?  Or is it 200 pounds
> > > total, divided by 9 shrouds?
> > >
> > > The tension on the back stay which holds up the
> > traveler is supposed to
> > > be the same as the tension on the lower side
> > stays?
> > >
> > > If the mast is not perpendicular to the boat, but
> > all the stays register
> > > 200 pounds--is the rigging ok?
> > >
> > > A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > TN Rhodey wrote:
> > > > Ed,
> > > >
> > > > Without a gauge it is hard to quantify hand
> > tight. Perhaps someone
> > > > should tighten hand tight and then measure? What
> > if three people
> > > > tightned hand tight and measured? I bet you
> > would have 3 different
> > > > measurements. I must admit that mine are tighter
> > than hand
> > > > tight....not much. Lee side shrouds still go
> > slack. Sloppy or over
> > > > tight, either way creates proplems.
> > > >
> > > > Roger knew how tune an R22 and he used a gauge.
> > Did you see his specs?
> > > > Anyone with IMF actually use a gauge? Someone
> > should know this? I may
> > > > have to borrow a friend's gauge and measure
> > .....
> > > >
> > > > Wally
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> From: Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>
> > > >> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > > >> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds =
> > location of answer for David
> > > >> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> David:
> > > >>      I would like to suppliment Captain Rummy's
> > response to you with
> > > >> where
> > > >> you find documentation supporting what he is
> > telling you.  Stan, aka,
> > > >> General Boats, makes an instruction manual for
> > the Rhodes 22.  With
> > > >> Rose's
> > > >> permission, a copy of which is located in the
> > Document Library of
> > > >> this web
> > > >> site. See:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> >
> http://www.rhodes22.org/doclib/Rhodes22-1988-Owners-Raven.pdf
> > > >>
> > > >>       Now specifically go to pages 4 and 5,
> > especially about the guy
> > > who
> > > >> used pliers to tighten the shrouds.  So after
> > reading the instructions
> > > >> promulgated by Stan you may begin to understand
> > why most of use just
> > > >> follow
> > > >> his instuctions.  Please understand that while
> > Stan's education is
> > > >> electrical engineering he is a nautical
> > engineer by advocation.  The
> > > >> point
> > > >> Rummy made is that the mast is not made to be
> > over tighened.  What
> > > Rummy
> > > >> said is supported by the instructional manual
> > for this boat.
> > > >>       Who ever told you to use 200 pounds of
> > tension told you very
> > > >> wrong.
> > > >> That kind of number may be correct for a fifty
> > foot keel stepped racing
> > > >> sailboat, but not appropriate for a cabin
> > (deck) stepped mast without a
> > > >> compression post from base to keel.   It sounds
> > like somebody has
> > > >> created a
> > > >> problem in over tensioning the stays. 
> > Hopefully the cabin is not
> > > >> reshaped
> > > >> permenantly.
> > > >>        Many Cat boats and other modern designs
> > do not even use stays
> > > >> to keep
> > > >> the mast upright.  Read about the latest model
> > Hunter sail boats.
> > > >>
> > > >> Ed K
> > > >> Greenville, SC, USA
> > > >> --
> > > >> View this message in context:
> > > >>
> >
> http://www.nabble.com/Problem-shrouds.-t1840793.html#a5025664
> > > >> Sent from the Rhodes22 forum at Nabble.com.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > __________________________________________________
> > 
> === message truncated ===
> 
> 
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