[Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David

[TN Rhodey]

Capn Z,

Thanks! I knew someone out there must measure. I tighten the same way....I 
use wrench to hold shroud and adjust turnbuckle by hand. I can't get tight 
enough without using wrench or plier to help. One of these days I will 
measure.

Wally


>From: "Todd Zumach" <zoomerzx at gmail.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David
>Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:43:39 -0500
>
>At the risk of getting flamed, I will add my input to this conversation.
>
>1.  I have a hard copy of the manual and have read it multiple times (it is
>good reading).
>
>2.  I am not an engineer, but I am the type of person who would prefer
>concrete numbers to concepts like "hand tighten".  I also suffer from
>"Gorillaitis", that is, I tend to over tighten, use too much force, or a
>bigger hammer at times and have broken a few things in my days.
>
>3.  I have read other sources regarding shroud tension and have found both
>"keep them loose" and "keep them tight" opinions.  One point that I thougt
>seemed reasonable was that a rig that was "too loose", would allow actually
>allow shock loads to occur.  That author suggested that the lee side should
>should not go noticably slack.
>
>4.  The previous owner of my R22 showed me how tight he kept the shrouds 
>and
>urged me to not over tighten by using a pliers.  He also told me to make
>sure to hold on to the shroud above the turnbucke in order to keep the
>shroud from twisting.  I do use a small wrench to hold on to the shroud to
>keep it from twisting and use my hand to tighten the turnbuckle.
>
>5.  I have read the spec from Roger's post and based on other noted
>suggestions I do not tighten quite as tight as he recommended.
>
>6.  How do I know how tight are the shrouds?  I asked received a Loos guage
>as a gift (per my request).
>
>7.  I have only used the guage for this spring's initial set up and choose
>set up the lower shrouds at 120 pounds and the upper at 150 pounds.  Those
>were determined by playing with the tension until the all felt "good" and
>then measuring with the guage.
>
>8.  Next week, when I put the boat back in the water, I will use the guage
>again and confirm my settings and report back to the group.
>
>Capn Z
>Phillips, WI
>
>On 6/24/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>
>>Oh, please...
>>
>>This is like a discussion of how hard to slam a car door.  You only have
>>to slam it hard enough to close.  The car can take a harder slam, but
>>you are not accomplishing anything good for the car by slamming the door
>>harder.
>>
>>We should banish Loos gauges from this list.  They are supposed to be
>>calibrated for the type and size of stay they are measuring.  They don't
>>measure in pounds--you interpolate index numbers.
>>
>>Where the hell did 200 pounds come from, anyhow?
>>
>>Is that 200 pounds when the other 8 shrouds are slack, or 200 pounds
>>when the other 8 shrouds also each show 200 pounds?  Or is it 200 pounds
>>total, divided by 9 shrouds?
>>
>>The tension on the back stay which holds up the traveler is supposed to
>>be the same as the tension on the lower side stays?
>>
>>If the mast is not perpendicular to the boat, but all the stays register
>>200 pounds--is the rigging ok?
>>
>>A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
>>
>>Bill Effros
>>
>>
>>
>>TN Rhodey wrote:
>> > Ed,
>> >
>> > Without a gauge it is hard to quantify hand tight. Perhaps someone
>> > should tighten hand tight and then measure? What if three people
>> > tightned hand tight and measured? I bet you would have 3 different
>> > measurements. I must admit that mine are tighter than hand
>> > tight....not much. Lee side shrouds still go slack. Sloppy or over
>> > tight, either way creates proplems.
>> >
>> > Roger knew how tune an R22 and he used a gauge. Did you see his specs?
>> > Anyone with IMF actually use a gauge? Someone should know this? I may
>> > have to borrow a friend's gauge and measure .....
>> >
>> > Wally
>> >
>> >
>> >> From: Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>
>> >> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> >> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> >> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for 
>>David
>> >> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> David:
>> >>      I would like to suppliment Captain Rummy's response to you with
>> >> where
>> >> you find documentation supporting what he is telling you.  Stan, aka,
>> >> General Boats, makes an instruction manual for the Rhodes 22.  With
>> >> Rose's
>> >> permission, a copy of which is located in the Document Library of
>> >> this web
>> >> site. See:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/doclib/Rhodes22-1988-Owners-Raven.pdf
>> >>
>> >>       Now specifically go to pages 4 and 5, especially about the guy
>>who
>> >> used pliers to tighten the shrouds.  So after reading the instructions
>> >> promulgated by Stan you may begin to understand why most of use just
>> >> follow
>> >> his instuctions.  Please understand that while Stan's education is
>> >> electrical engineering he is a nautical engineer by advocation.  The
>> >> point
>> >> Rummy made is that the mast is not made to be over tighened.  What
>>Rummy
>> >> said is supported by the instructional manual for this boat.
>> >>       Who ever told you to use 200 pounds of tension told you very
>> >> wrong.
>> >> That kind of number may be correct for a fifty foot keel stepped 
>>racing
>> >> sailboat, but not appropriate for a cabin (deck) stepped mast without 
>>a
>> >> compression post from base to keel.   It sounds like somebody has
>> >> created a
>> >> problem in over tensioning the stays.  Hopefully the cabin is not
>> >> reshaped
>> >> permenantly.
>> >>        Many Cat boats and other modern designs do not even use stays
>> >> to keep
>> >> the mast upright.  Read about the latest model Hunter sail boats.
>> >>
>> >> Ed K
>> >> Greenville, SC, USA
>> >> --
>> >> View this message in context:
>> >> http://www.nabble.com/Problem-shrouds.-t1840793.html#a5025664
>> >> Sent from the Rhodes22 forum at Nabble.com.
>> >>
>> >> __________________________________________________
>> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
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