[Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David

Sun Jun 25 11:17:24 EDT 2006

Wally,

I also tune rigging by eye and ear.

As noted by Rummy, much of what Roger said made absolutely no sense.  It 
was an "emperor has no clothes on" thing.  I think he left the list 
because people were starting to call him on it.

I've never seen Loos instructions, and would love to have someone post 
them to list. (If it's OK with Rose.)

Roger recommends 200 pounds.  But Herb is looking at the instructions 
and he says 15%.  Does the thing measure in pounds or in percentages?

The man who makes the boat tells you he tunes the boat by eye and ear.  
He has no trouble sailing into the wind, and I don't either.

The point of wire stay rigging is that it doesn't move much once set.  
If you have 200 pounds of force in each of 9 different directions, how 
do your stays get slack to leeward?

I never put tools on my stays.  It looks to me like a Loos gauge has the 
potential to damage the stay. 

There is no reason to put so much pressure on mounting hardware that you 
damage the structure of your boat.

If your stays are not exactly the same length, you will have to put 
different pressure on different stays to keep the sail where you want it 
relative to your boat and the wind.  Making the pressure on all stays 
equal is silly and counterproductive.

Sometimes I really miss Roger.  I'd love to see what he has to say about 
all this.

Bill Effros

TN Rhodey wrote:
> Bill,
>
> Tunig your rig is in no way like slamming a single car door. Your car 
> doors are independent. It would be like slamming all 4 car doors using 
> equal force.
>
> Did you read Roger's post in the FAQ. He goes through his process and 
> answers most of your questions. I have no idea if he is right.
>
> Many on this list complain they can't point high into the wind. I am 
> of the opinion that most of these people have boats way out of tune. I 
> also think the GB furler doesn't allow you to tighten jib luff 
> properly compounding the situation.
>
> You know I like to keep it simple but if you don't have experience 
> having a way to measure is helpful. Brad uses an example of 
> experienced mechanic not using torque wrench. I wonder if he would 
> wants all the guys to go through training never using a torque wrench. 
> If you don't have a point of reference (experience helps!) you are 
> just maKing a wild guess.
>
> Wally
>
>
>
>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for 
>> David
>> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:10:34 -0400
>>
>> Oh, please...
>>
>> This is like a discussion of how hard to slam a car door.  You only 
>> have to slam it hard enough to close.  The car can take a harder 
>> slam, but you are not accomplishing anything good for the car by 
>> slamming the door harder.
>>
>> We should banish Loos gauges from this list.  They are supposed to be 
>> calibrated for the type and size of stay they are measuring.  They 
>> don't measure in pounds--you interpolate index numbers.
>>
>> Where the hell did 200 pounds come from, anyhow?
>>
>> Is that 200 pounds when the other 8 shrouds are slack, or 200 pounds 
>> when the other 8 shrouds also each show 200 pounds?  Or is it 200 
>> pounds total, divided by 9 shrouds?
>>
>> The tension on the back stay which holds up the traveler is supposed 
>> to be the same as the tension on the lower side stays?
>>
>> If the mast is not perpendicular to the boat, but all the stays 
>> register 200 pounds--is the rigging ok?
>>
>> A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>>
>>
>> TN Rhodey wrote:
>>> Ed,
>>>
>>> Without a gauge it is hard to quantify hand tight. Perhaps someone 
>>> should tighten hand tight and then measure? What if three people 
>>> tightned hand tight and measured? I bet you would have 3 different 
>>> measurements. I must admit that mine are tighter than hand 
>>> tight....not much. Lee side shrouds still go slack. Sloppy or over 
>>> tight, either way creates proplems.
>>>
>>> Roger knew how tune an R22 and he used a gauge. Did you see his 
>>> specs? Anyone with IMF actually use a gauge? Someone should know 
>>> this? I may have to borrow a friend's gauge and measure .....
>>>
>>> Wally
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for 
>>>> David
>>>> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David:
>>>>      I would like to suppliment Captain Rummy's response to you 
>>>> with where
>>>> you find documentation supporting what he is telling you.  Stan, aka,
>>>> General Boats, makes an instruction manual for the Rhodes 22.  With 
>>>> Rose's
>>>> permission, a copy of which is located in the Document Library of 
>>>> this web
>>>> site. See:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/doclib/Rhodes22-1988-Owners-Raven.pdf
>>>>
>>>>       Now specifically go to pages 4 and 5, especially about the 
>>>> guy who
>>>> used pliers to tighten the shrouds.  So after reading the instructions
>>>> promulgated by Stan you may begin to understand why most of use 
>>>> just follow
>>>> his instuctions.  Please understand that while Stan's education is
>>>> electrical engineering he is a nautical engineer by advocation.  
>>>> The point
>>>> Rummy made is that the mast is not made to be over tighened.  What 
>>>> Rummy
>>>> said is supported by the instructional manual for this boat.
>>>>       Who ever told you to use 200 pounds of tension told you very 
>>>> wrong.
>>>> That kind of number may be correct for a fifty foot keel stepped 
>>>> racing
>>>> sailboat, but not appropriate for a cabin (deck) stepped mast 
>>>> without a
>>>> compression post from base to keel.   It sounds like somebody has 
>>>> created a
>>>> problem in over tensioning the stays.  Hopefully the cabin is not 
>>>> reshaped
>>>> permenantly.
>>>>        Many Cat boats and other modern designs do not even use 
>>>> stays to keep
>>>> the mast upright.  Read about the latest model Hunter sail boats.
>>>>
>>>> Ed K
>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>> -- 
>>>> View this message in context: 
>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Problem-shrouds.-t1840793.html#a5025664
>>>> Sent from the Rhodes22 forum at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>
>> __________________________________________________
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>
>
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