[Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David

TN Rhodey tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Mon Jun 26 08:23:15 EDT 2006 

Stan,

Of course you are right. I have a 150 I sheet outside and a 125 that I sheet 
inside. For those that care a 125 is about the largest fore sail that you 
can sheet inside fully unfurled without touching spreader. My boat points 
great!

Also the easy to adjust back stay does work great. When tuning my boat I 
loosen back stays, then make sure my jib halyard is tight. Then I tighten 
back stays. This provides my boat a little weather helm.

Wally


>From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David
>Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 10:34:55 -0400
>
>Wally,
>
>(while I am waiting for new Rhodie Jeff Herbert to come back from his pick 
>up test sail) Re pointing:  The back say tension adjuster should allow you 
>to make the jib stay as tight as you can hand-make it.  The double back 
>stays are the stays I feel should be made as hand tight as you dare (using 
>the rapid tension line system) because our mast head rig in turn then makes 
>the jib stay amazingly straight.   The other element of closer pointing is 
>being able to trim the jib in closer to the boat's center line.  The Rhodes 
>provides for three different jib sheet lead positions:  Sailing with full 
>genoa limits pointing because the sail has to remain outside the spreaders 
>so trimming is limited.  The genoa sheets run outside the upper shrouds and 
>back to the cars on the gunnels tracks (and to the genoa winches and clam 
>cleats).  A second lead set on the cabin trunk sides are used with the jib 
>sheets inside the upper shrouds to fair leads (on older boats to cars on 
>shorter tracks) and on to cabin side cam cleats (on older boats the sheets 
>still then go back to the genoa winches).  For closer pointing still, there 
>are sets of leads and cleats on top of the cabin where the jib sheets are 
>inside all of the shrouds.  This three leads system allows progressively 
>closer pointing with the trade off of having to employ a progressively 
>smaller head sail (more furling of the genoa)  Some older non recycled 
>boats may not have this third set of jib sheet leads.  And, of course, 
>while the boat will perform nicely with the board up, for better pointing 
>it should be down.  I know you know all of this but I have run across a few 
>who do not. Newer boats also have slightly greater fin areas for better 
>pointing..
>
>stan/gbi
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "TN Rhodey" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
>To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 8:25 AM
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David
>
>
>>Bill,
>>
>>Tunig your rig is in no way like slamming a single car door. Your car 
>>doors are independent. It would be like slamming all 4 car doors using 
>>equal force.
>>
>>Did you read Roger's post in the FAQ. He goes through his process and 
>>answers most of your questions. I have no idea if he is right.
>>
>>Many on this list complain they can't point high into the wind. I am of 
>>the opinion that most of these people have boats way out of tune. I also 
>>think the GB furler doesn't allow you to tighten jib luff properly 
>>compounding the situation.
>>
>>You know I like to keep it simple but if you don't have experience having 
>>a way to measure is helpful. Brad uses an example of experienced mechanic 
>>not using torque wrench. I wonder if he would wants all the guys to go 
>>through training never using a torque wrench. If you don't have a point of 
>>reference (experience helps!) you are just maKing a wild guess.
>>
>>Wally
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for 
>>>David
>>>Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:10:34 -0400
>>>
>>>Oh, please...
>>>
>>>This is like a discussion of how hard to slam a car door.  You only have 
>>>to slam it hard enough to close.  The car can take a harder slam, but you 
>>>are not accomplishing anything good for the car by slamming the door 
>>>harder.
>>>
>>>We should banish Loos gauges from this list.  They are supposed to be 
>>>calibrated for the type and size of stay they are measuring.  They don't 
>>>measure in pounds--you interpolate index numbers.
>>>
>>>Where the hell did 200 pounds come from, anyhow?
>>>
>>>Is that 200 pounds when the other 8 shrouds are slack, or 200 pounds when 
>>>the other 8 shrouds also each show 200 pounds?  Or is it 200 pounds 
>>>total, divided by 9 shrouds?
>>>
>>>The tension on the back stay which holds up the traveler is supposed to 
>>>be the same as the tension on the lower side stays?
>>>
>>>If the mast is not perpendicular to the boat, but all the stays register 
>>>200 pounds--is the rigging ok?
>>>
>>>A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
>>>
>>>Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>TN Rhodey wrote:
>>>>Ed,
>>>>
>>>>Without a gauge it is hard to quantify hand tight. Perhaps someone 
>>>>should tighten hand tight and then measure? What if three people 
>>>>tightned hand tight and measured? I bet you would have 3 different 
>>>>measurements. I must admit that mine are tighter than hand tight....not 
>>>>much. Lee side shrouds still go slack. Sloppy or over tight, either way 
>>>>creates proplems.
>>>>
>>>>Roger knew how tune an R22 and he used a gauge. Did you see his specs? 
>>>>Anyone with IMF actually use a gauge? Someone should know this? I may 
>>>>have to borrow a friend's gauge and measure .....
>>>>
>>>>Wally
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From: Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David
>>>>>Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>David:
>>>>>      I would like to suppliment Captain Rummy's response to you with 
>>>>>where
>>>>>you find documentation supporting what he is telling you.  Stan, aka,
>>>>>General Boats, makes an instruction manual for the Rhodes 22.  With 
>>>>>Rose's
>>>>>permission, a copy of which is located in the Document Library of this 
>>>>>web
>>>>>site. See:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/doclib/Rhodes22-1988-Owners-Raven.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>       Now specifically go to pages 4 and 5, especially about the guy 
>>>>>who
>>>>>used pliers to tighten the shrouds.  So after reading the instructions
>>>>>promulgated by Stan you may begin to understand why most of use just 
>>>>>follow
>>>>>his instuctions.  Please understand that while Stan's education is
>>>>>electrical engineering he is a nautical engineer by advocation.  The 
>>>>>point
>>>>>Rummy made is that the mast is not made to be over tighened.  What 
>>>>>Rummy
>>>>>said is supported by the instructional manual for this boat.
>>>>>       Who ever told you to use 200 pounds of tension told you very 
>>>>>wrong.
>>>>>That kind of number may be correct for a fifty foot keel stepped racing
>>>>>sailboat, but not appropriate for a cabin (deck) stepped mast without a
>>>>>compression post from base to keel.   It sounds like somebody has 
>>>>>created a
>>>>>problem in over tensioning the stays.  Hopefully the cabin is not 
>>>>>reshaped
>>>>>permenantly.
>>>>>        Many Cat boats and other modern designs do not even use stays 
>>>>>to keep
>>>>>the mast upright.  Read about the latest model Hunter sail boats.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ed K
>>>>>Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>>--
>>>>>View this message in context: 
>>>>>http://www.nabble.com/Problem-shrouds.-t1840793.html#a5025664
>>>>>Sent from the Rhodes22 forum at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>
>__________________________________________________
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