[Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David

Bud budconnor at earthlink.net
Mon Jun 26 20:28:22 EDT 2006 

Wally,
  do you have both the 125 and the 150 mounted at the same time - two 
Genoas?
If so, could you post some pictures of your set up?

Thanks,
Bud

TN Rhodey wrote:

> Stan,
>
> Of course you are right. I have a 150 I sheet outside and a 125 that I 
> sheet inside. For those that care a 125 is about the largest fore sail 
> that you can sheet inside fully unfurled without touching spreader. My 
> boat points great!
>
> Also the easy to adjust back stay does work great. When tuning my boat 
> I loosen back stays, then make sure my jib halyard is tight. Then I 
> tighten back stays. This provides my boat a little weather helm.
>
> Wally
>
>
>> From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for 
>> David
>> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 10:34:55 -0400
>>
>> Wally,
>>
>> (while I am waiting for new Rhodie Jeff Herbert to come back from his 
>> pick up test sail) Re pointing:  The back say tension adjuster should 
>> allow you to make the jib stay as tight as you can hand-make it.  The 
>> double back stays are the stays I feel should be made as hand tight 
>> as you dare (using the rapid tension line system) because our mast 
>> head rig in turn then makes the jib stay amazingly straight.   The 
>> other element of closer pointing is being able to trim the jib in 
>> closer to the boat's center line.  The Rhodes provides for three 
>> different jib sheet lead positions:  Sailing with full genoa limits 
>> pointing because the sail has to remain outside the spreaders so 
>> trimming is limited.  The genoa sheets run outside the upper shrouds 
>> and back to the cars on the gunnels tracks (and to the genoa winches 
>> and clam cleats).  A second lead set on the cabin trunk sides are 
>> used with the jib sheets inside the upper shrouds to fair leads (on 
>> older boats to cars on shorter tracks) and on to cabin side cam 
>> cleats (on older boats the sheets still then go back to the genoa 
>> winches).  For closer pointing still, there are sets of leads and 
>> cleats on top of the cabin where the jib sheets are inside all of the 
>> shrouds.  This three leads system allows progressively closer 
>> pointing with the trade off of having to employ a progressively 
>> smaller head sail (more furling of the genoa)  Some older non 
>> recycled boats may not have this third set of jib sheet leads.  And, 
>> of course, while the boat will perform nicely with the board up, for 
>> better pointing it should be down.  I know you know all of this but I 
>> have run across a few who do not. Newer boats also have slightly 
>> greater fin areas for better pointing..
>>
>> stan/gbi
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "TN Rhodey" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 8:25 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for 
>> David
>>
>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> Tunig your rig is in no way like slamming a single car door. Your 
>>> car doors are independent. It would be like slamming all 4 car doors 
>>> using equal force.
>>>
>>> Did you read Roger's post in the FAQ. He goes through his process 
>>> and answers most of your questions. I have no idea if he is right.
>>>
>>> Many on this list complain they can't point high into the wind. I am 
>>> of the opinion that most of these people have boats way out of tune. 
>>> I also think the GB furler doesn't allow you to tighten jib luff 
>>> properly compounding the situation.
>>>
>>> You know I like to keep it simple but if you don't have experience 
>>> having a way to measure is helpful. Brad uses an example of 
>>> experienced mechanic not using torque wrench. I wonder if he would 
>>> wants all the guys to go through training never using a torque 
>>> wrench. If you don't have a point of reference (experience helps!) 
>>> you are just maKing a wild guess.
>>>
>>> Wally
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer 
>>>> for David
>>>> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:10:34 -0400
>>>>
>>>> Oh, please...
>>>>
>>>> This is like a discussion of how hard to slam a car door.  You only 
>>>> have to slam it hard enough to close.  The car can take a harder 
>>>> slam, but you are not accomplishing anything good for the car by 
>>>> slamming the door harder.
>>>>
>>>> We should banish Loos gauges from this list.  They are supposed to 
>>>> be calibrated for the type and size of stay they are measuring.  
>>>> They don't measure in pounds--you interpolate index numbers.
>>>>
>>>> Where the hell did 200 pounds come from, anyhow?
>>>>
>>>> Is that 200 pounds when the other 8 shrouds are slack, or 200 
>>>> pounds when the other 8 shrouds also each show 200 pounds?  Or is 
>>>> it 200 pounds total, divided by 9 shrouds?
>>>>
>>>> The tension on the back stay which holds up the traveler is 
>>>> supposed to be the same as the tension on the lower side stays?
>>>>
>>>> If the mast is not perpendicular to the boat, but all the stays 
>>>> register 200 pounds--is the rigging ok?
>>>>
>>>> A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ed,
>>>>>
>>>>> Without a gauge it is hard to quantify hand tight. Perhaps someone 
>>>>> should tighten hand tight and then measure? What if three people 
>>>>> tightned hand tight and measured? I bet you would have 3 different 
>>>>> measurements. I must admit that mine are tighter than hand 
>>>>> tight....not much. Lee side shrouds still go slack. Sloppy or over 
>>>>> tight, either way creates proplems.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger knew how tune an R22 and he used a gauge. Did you see his 
>>>>> specs? Anyone with IMF actually use a gauge? Someone should know 
>>>>> this? I may have to borrow a friend's gauge and measure .....
>>>>>
>>>>> Wally
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for 
>>>>>> David
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David:
>>>>>>      I would like to suppliment Captain Rummy's response to you 
>>>>>> with where
>>>>>> you find documentation supporting what he is telling you.  Stan, 
>>>>>> aka,
>>>>>> General Boats, makes an instruction manual for the Rhodes 22.  
>>>>>> With Rose's
>>>>>> permission, a copy of which is located in the Document Library of 
>>>>>> this web
>>>>>> site. See:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/doclib/Rhodes22-1988-Owners-Raven.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       Now specifically go to pages 4 and 5, especially about the 
>>>>>> guy who
>>>>>> used pliers to tighten the shrouds.  So after reading the 
>>>>>> instructions
>>>>>> promulgated by Stan you may begin to understand why most of use 
>>>>>> just follow
>>>>>> his instuctions.  Please understand that while Stan's education is
>>>>>> electrical engineering he is a nautical engineer by advocation.  
>>>>>> The point
>>>>>> Rummy made is that the mast is not made to be over tighened.  
>>>>>> What Rummy
>>>>>> said is supported by the instructional manual for this boat.
>>>>>>       Who ever told you to use 200 pounds of tension told you 
>>>>>> very wrong.
>>>>>> That kind of number may be correct for a fifty foot keel stepped 
>>>>>> racing
>>>>>> sailboat, but not appropriate for a cabin (deck) stepped mast 
>>>>>> without a
>>>>>> compression post from base to keel.   It sounds like somebody has 
>>>>>> created a
>>>>>> problem in over tensioning the stays.  Hopefully the cabin is not 
>>>>>> reshaped
>>>>>> permenantly.
>>>>>>        Many Cat boats and other modern designs do not even use 
>>>>>> stays to keep
>>>>>> the mast upright.  Read about the latest model Hunter sail boats.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> View this message in context: 
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Problem-shrouds.-t1840793.html#a5025664
>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes22 forum at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
>
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