[Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David

TN Rhodey tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Tue Jun 27 07:44:25 EDT 2006 

Bud,

No I have never tried running wing on wing with both. My Harken furler does 
have 2 tracks, I just never tried it. I know others have posted that they 
have done this.

Wally


>From: Bud <budconnor at earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for David
>Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 19:28:22 -0400
>
>Wally,
>  do you have both the 125 and the 150 mounted at the same time - two 
>Genoas?
>If so, could you post some pictures of your set up?
>
>Thanks,
>Bud
>
>TN Rhodey wrote:
>
>>Stan,
>>
>>Of course you are right. I have a 150 I sheet outside and a 125 that I 
>>sheet inside. For those that care a 125 is about the largest fore sail 
>>that you can sheet inside fully unfurled without touching spreader. My 
>>boat points great!
>>
>>Also the easy to adjust back stay does work great. When tuning my boat I 
>>loosen back stays, then make sure my jib halyard is tight. Then I tighten 
>>back stays. This provides my boat a little weather helm.
>>
>>Wally
>>
>>
>>>From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for 
>>>David
>>>Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 10:34:55 -0400
>>>
>>>Wally,
>>>
>>>(while I am waiting for new Rhodie Jeff Herbert to come back from his 
>>>pick up test sail) Re pointing:  The back say tension adjuster should 
>>>allow you to make the jib stay as tight as you can hand-make it.  The 
>>>double back stays are the stays I feel should be made as hand tight as 
>>>you dare (using the rapid tension line system) because our mast head rig 
>>>in turn then makes the jib stay amazingly straight.   The other element 
>>>of closer pointing is being able to trim the jib in closer to the boat's 
>>>center line.  The Rhodes provides for three different jib sheet lead 
>>>positions:  Sailing with full genoa limits pointing because the sail has 
>>>to remain outside the spreaders so trimming is limited.  The genoa sheets 
>>>run outside the upper shrouds and back to the cars on the gunnels tracks 
>>>(and to the genoa winches and clam cleats).  A second lead set on the 
>>>cabin trunk sides are used with the jib sheets inside the upper shrouds 
>>>to fair leads (on older boats to cars on shorter tracks) and on to cabin 
>>>side cam cleats (on older boats the sheets still then go back to the 
>>>genoa winches).  For closer pointing still, there are sets of leads and 
>>>cleats on top of the cabin where the jib sheets are inside all of the 
>>>shrouds.  This three leads system allows progressively closer pointing 
>>>with the trade off of having to employ a progressively smaller head sail 
>>>(more furling of the genoa)  Some older non recycled boats may not have 
>>>this third set of jib sheet leads.  And, of course, while the boat will 
>>>perform nicely with the board up, for better pointing it should be down.  
>>>I know you know all of this but I have run across a few who do not. Newer 
>>>boats also have slightly greater fin areas for better pointing..
>>>
>>>stan/gbi
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "TN Rhodey" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
>>>To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 8:25 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for 
>>>David
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bill,
>>>>
>>>>Tunig your rig is in no way like slamming a single car door. Your car 
>>>>doors are independent. It would be like slamming all 4 car doors using 
>>>>equal force.
>>>>
>>>>Did you read Roger's post in the FAQ. He goes through his process and 
>>>>answers most of your questions. I have no idea if he is right.
>>>>
>>>>Many on this list complain they can't point high into the wind. I am of 
>>>>the opinion that most of these people have boats way out of tune. I also 
>>>>think the GB furler doesn't allow you to tighten jib luff properly 
>>>>compounding the situation.
>>>>
>>>>You know I like to keep it simple but if you don't have experience 
>>>>having a way to measure is helpful. Brad uses an example of experienced 
>>>>mechanic not using torque wrench. I wonder if he would wants all the 
>>>>guys to go through training never using a torque wrench. If you don't 
>>>>have a point of reference (experience helps!) you are just maKing a wild 
>>>>guess.
>>>>
>>>>Wally
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for 
>>>>>David
>>>>>Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:10:34 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh, please...
>>>>>
>>>>>This is like a discussion of how hard to slam a car door.  You only 
>>>>>have to slam it hard enough to close.  The car can take a harder slam, 
>>>>>but you are not accomplishing anything good for the car by slamming the 
>>>>>door harder.
>>>>>
>>>>>We should banish Loos gauges from this list.  They are supposed to be 
>>>>>calibrated for the type and size of stay they are measuring.  They 
>>>>>don't measure in pounds--you interpolate index numbers.
>>>>>
>>>>>Where the hell did 200 pounds come from, anyhow?
>>>>>
>>>>>Is that 200 pounds when the other 8 shrouds are slack, or 200 pounds 
>>>>>when the other 8 shrouds also each show 200 pounds?  Or is it 200 
>>>>>pounds total, divided by 9 shrouds?
>>>>>
>>>>>The tension on the back stay which holds up the traveler is supposed to 
>>>>>be the same as the tension on the lower side stays?
>>>>>
>>>>>If the mast is not perpendicular to the boat, but all the stays 
>>>>>register 200 pounds--is the rigging ok?
>>>>>
>>>>>A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
>>>>>
>>>>>Bill Effros
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>TN Rhodey wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Ed,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Without a gauge it is hard to quantify hand tight. Perhaps someone 
>>>>>>should tighten hand tight and then measure? What if three people 
>>>>>>tightned hand tight and measured? I bet you would have 3 different 
>>>>>>measurements. I must admit that mine are tighter than hand 
>>>>>>tight....not much. Lee side shrouds still go slack. Sloppy or over 
>>>>>>tight, either way creates proplems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Roger knew how tune an R22 and he used a gauge. Did you see his specs? 
>>>>>>Anyone with IMF actually use a gauge? Someone should know this? I may 
>>>>>>have to borrow a friend's gauge and measure .....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wally
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From: Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>>>>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Problem shrouds = location of answer for 
>>>>>>>David
>>>>>>>Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>David:
>>>>>>>      I would like to suppliment Captain Rummy's response to you with 
>>>>>>>where
>>>>>>>you find documentation supporting what he is telling you.  Stan, aka,
>>>>>>>General Boats, makes an instruction manual for the Rhodes 22.  With 
>>>>>>>Rose's
>>>>>>>permission, a copy of which is located in the Document Library of 
>>>>>>>this web
>>>>>>>site. See:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/doclib/Rhodes22-1988-Owners-Raven.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Now specifically go to pages 4 and 5, especially about the guy 
>>>>>>>who
>>>>>>>used pliers to tighten the shrouds.  So after reading the 
>>>>>>>instructions
>>>>>>>promulgated by Stan you may begin to understand why most of use just 
>>>>>>>follow
>>>>>>>his instuctions.  Please understand that while Stan's education is
>>>>>>>electrical engineering he is a nautical engineer by advocation.  The 
>>>>>>>point
>>>>>>>Rummy made is that the mast is not made to be over tighened.  What 
>>>>>>>Rummy
>>>>>>>said is supported by the instructional manual for this boat.
>>>>>>>       Who ever told you to use 200 pounds of tension told you very 
>>>>>>>wrong.
>>>>>>>That kind of number may be correct for a fifty foot keel stepped 
>>>>>>>racing
>>>>>>>sailboat, but not appropriate for a cabin (deck) stepped mast without 
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>compression post from base to keel.   It sounds like somebody has 
>>>>>>>created a
>>>>>>>problem in over tensioning the stays.  Hopefully the cabin is not 
>>>>>>>reshaped
>>>>>>>permenantly.
>>>>>>>        Many Cat boats and other modern designs do not even use stays 
>>>>>>>to keep
>>>>>>>the mast upright.  Read about the latest model Hunter sail boats.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ed K
>>>>>>>Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>View this message in context: 
>>>>>>>http://www.nabble.com/Problem-shrouds.-t1840793.html#a5025664
>>>>>>>Sent from the Rhodes22 forum at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________
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>>
>>
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