[Rhodes22-list] WTF? (response to Hank and Tootle)

[Herb Parsons]

The reasons "Bush and his cronies" (I assume, that by 'Bush and his cronies', you are referring to the US Congress, since they are the body that authorized and voted for the resolution) are clearly laid out in the resolution authorizing the action. You HAVE read it, haven't you?

Herb Parsons

S/V O'Jure
1976 O'Day 25
Lake Grapevine, N TX

S/V Reve de Papa
1971 Coronado 35
Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast

>>> saroj at pathfind.net 5/14/2006 12:29:40 pm >>>
To Hank:

Exactly what do you believe WAS the reason Bush and his cronies decided to 
go to war in Iraq?

The stated reason was that Iraq harbored Al Qaeda terrorists and Sadaam was 
a recalcitrant tyrant and had WMD which he planned to use against us.  That 
he was a tyrant there is no doubt.  Is it the job of the U.S.A. to eliminate 
all tyrants from this world? There are plenty to choose from...

Aside from the fact that there are anti-Western radical Muslims throughout 
the world and that there were no doubt a few in Iraq, there has never been 
evidence that Iraq had significant supportive ties to al Qaeda.  The 
preponderance of the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 were from Saudi 
Arabia and yet this administration yielded to Prince Bandar on 9/13/2001 and 
facilitated the prompt removal of 100 or so, many of them relatives of bin 
Laden who, had they stayed and been extensively interviewed, could possibly 
have helped in capturing him.  Not only were they allowed to fly within the 
U.S. during the total shut-down of air traffic following 9/11, they had 
government-provided escorts.

Afghanistan and Pakistan were far more likely countries than Iraq.  We got 
half-way in Afghanistan before diverting our attention to Iraq.  On the 
question of the WMD's, the CIA had already disputed that and provided this 
information to this administration prior to either the presentations to the 
U.N. or the declaration of war against Iraq.  In addition, there is very 
good evidence that we actually began attacking Iraq militarily prior to 
approval by congress.

As far as this war having a lower casualty rate than previous wars, I am not 
in the least interested in the rate.  It was an ill-conceived war and one is 
too many.

On the issue of prescience, there were volumes of intelligence that Muslim 
terrorists were planning to use aircraft as weapons against the U.S. both 
from foreign sources and within the FBI, FAA, and elsewhere.  NORAD was 
planning preparation exercises to develop the capability to respond to this 
event that were denied authorization by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. 
Prescience means "knowledge of actions and events before they occur"... 
there was plenty of it before 9/11.  I realize you were referring to Bush's 
argument for going to war, but this seems actually more significant.

On Bush's pronunciation of "nuclear", this is simply a "stand-in" for my 
perception (am I alone in this?) that Bush is neither particularly 
intellectually gifted nor intelligent.  He has succeeded in dumbing-down our 
government to appeal to the masses, which unfortunately has wide-appeal in 
this country.

On the Mexico incident, I will ask my source (who has direct knowledge of 
the situation as he lives in that town) if he would be willing to have you 
contact him on this....

==========================================================

To Ed:

Just how you came up with that "label" for me I have no idea... If I have to 
have a label at all (which I am profoundly against on principle) I consider 
myself an independent libertarian.

While I do believe that we should take care of people who "really" can't 
take care of themselves (infirm, aged - although my 83-year-old mother still 
works and she is nearly blind) or who need a helping hand for a short time 
because they've been knocked down through no fault of their own, I don't 
believe in giving handouts ad infinitus for no reason other than laziness 
and the unwillingness to accept responsibility for themselves or their 
actions.

I'm also a "conservative" in the pure sense of the word, not as it as 
morphed into a label for the wealthy "let them eat cake" factions in this 
country.  I believe we should conserve our resources and not squandor them 
with no regard for those who will succeed us on this earth to say nothing of 
the immediate impact... national debt is one such area that concerns me 
greatly; energy (whether oil, coal, or natural gas) is another area that is 
sorely disregarded by this administration... (Bush180 has totally reversed 
the position he stated when he came into office..."We need an energy policy 
that encourages consumption" - President Bush, 9/23/2002, speech given in 
Trenton, New Jersey; I personally remember watching him give a speech early 
on in his administration when he stated - paraphrased - [Americans like to 
drive big cars... and shrugged with a "what me worry" A.E. Newmann grin).. I 
think the earth is a fragile balance of natural phenomenon that should not 
be consumed without regard for its future.  Do I know that for a fact? No, I 
don't... I don't believe anyone does but God, but within my lifetime I have 
seen the result of toxic waste (and the turn-around in many instances where 
there has been a reversal in policy.. Lake Erie comes to mind).

I am clearly a capitalist... I trade stocks for a living.  I profit from 
investments I have made in businesses.  I was a business-owner until a few 
months ago.  My career was consulting to organizations in computing and 
business process.

Perhaps you can't wrap your head around the idea that someone can think for 
him/herself rather than follow a platform put out by whomever they accept as 
their "leader".

By the way, who appointed you as the authority who can say what someone of 
any point of view can think or not? ("You cannot just be liberal on an 'a la 
cart' basis.").  In case you're interested, its "a la carte").

Saroj

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tootle" <ekroposki at charter.net>
To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] WTF?


>
> Saroj,
>      You said, " heard last week that a foreigner who owned a restaurant 
> in
> Mexico was recently
> deported within 5 days for wiping the tables in his own restaurant... 
> seems
> that he didn't have a work permit to wipe tables... only a permit to own 
> the
> restaurant... no lawyer... no hearing... hauled off to jail then released
> for 3 days to pack his bags and get out of the country... just like 
> that...
>
> But you are the bleeding heart liberal on this list.  You cannot just be
> liberal on an 'a la cart' basis.  I guess Georgie has no support if the
> conservatives are against him on immigration and the liberals are against
> him.  Oh, what about EC?(you know enlightened capitalist?)
>
> Ed K
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/WTF--t1605196.html#a4376587 
> Sent from the Rhodes22 forum at Nabble.com.
>
> __________________________________________________
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