[Rhodes22-list] Good News - Gas Prices Falling

TN Rhodey tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Mon Oct 9 16:50:02 EDT 2006 

Phillip,

I worked in and ran restaurants for many years. Restaurants do not throw 
away used fryer oil. I don't know what they did before the 70s but I do know 
the oil was picked up for re-use since the 70s. It wasn't used to run diesel 
autos but I can assure you that it is not thrown away.

I do agree that using fry oil to power your diesel truck is a good thing but 
it is not like this oil hasn't been recycled all along.

Wally


>From: "Philip" <3drecon at comcast.net>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Good News - Gas Prices Falling
>Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 14:16:44 -0400
>
>I have a 2005 GMC Diesel.  GMC said the engine is made by Mitsubishi.  The
>neat thing about diesels is they can run on cooking oil (I think we've all
>seen the newspaper articles and the Mythbusters recently did a segement).
>That is definitely a renewable resource.  Right now, the restaurants throw
>that stuff away.
>
>Philip
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>From: 	rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]  On Behalf Of Brad Haslett
>Sent:	Monday, October 09, 2006 1:31 PM
>To:	The Rhodes 22 mail list
>Subject:	Re: [Rhodes22-list] Good News - Gas Prices Falling
>
>Hank,
>
>You found the problem!  It just doesn't add up to buy a hybrid, and, 
>they're
>not as environmentally friendly as people think.  Where do you dispose of
>the old battery?  Most batteries are recycled these days so that may not be
>that big a problem but this is, it takes about four years of driving to 
>make
>up for the energy used to build your hybrid over the energy consumed 
>driving
>your old gas guzzler.  Diesels are the way to go - after you've driven your
>gas guzzler to it's bitter end.  The railroad and trucking industry figured
>this out a long time ago. GM killed the diesel car business in the early
>80's with their POS converted gas to diesel engine.  The Europeans are
>way ahead of us on this one.  Hyundai is building a diesel/electric hybrid
>for the China market (we own two pieces of Hyundai construction equipment
>and are impressed with their quality).  I'm watching that one!
>
>Gas prices are expected to remain low for awhile which means people will
>forget the pain they just experienced.  I'll keep my 12 year old Lexus for
>another 100,000 miles and see what's on the market then.
>
>Brad
>
>
>On 10/9/06, Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > On the subject of hybrid cars, we recently bought a new car and we were
> > looking at the Honda Civic, both standard and hybrid.  For us, the math
> > just
> > didn't work out and we ended up buying the standard version. I'll show 
>you
> > what I mean.  FYI, both of the cause were comparable equipped with the
> > only
> > real difference being the drivetrain.
> >
> >
> >
> > Honda Civic
> >
> > MPG
> >
> > Gas Cost/Gal
> >
> > Annual Miles
> >
> > Gas/year (Mileage/MPG)
> >
> > Gas Cost/year
> >
> > Veh Cost
> >
> > # of years to break even
> >
> > Regular
> >
> > 30
> >
> > 2.5
> >
> > 15000
> >
> > 500
> >
> > 1250
> >
> > 18000
> >
> >
> >
> > Hybrid
> >
> > 50
> >
> > 2.5
> >
> > 15000
> >
> > 300
> >
> > 750
> >
> > 22000
> >
> > 8
> >
> >
> >
> > At a savings of $500 a year in gas, it would take 8 years for the hybrid
> > to
> > break even with the normal engine version because of the increased
> > purchase
> > price. To me, that is just not economically feasible.
> > Hank
> >
> > On 10/9/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Saroj,
> > >
> > > Just found this.  Be careful on geothermal.  My brother tried it and 
>got
> > > burned--no, that's a bad word word in this instance--he got frozen--it
> > > sucked so much water out of the ground that there was none left for
> > > cooking or bathing--not to mention that it got lukewarm very quickly.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > >
> > > PS -- I've rented the straight diesel cars in Europe and they are
> > > sensational.  You can't tell they are diesels any more except when you
> > > keep passing gas pumps without needing any more fuel.  I am seriously
> > > considering a hybrid Camry for myself.
> > >
> > > Saroj Gilbert wrote:
> > > > I've heard the deisel - electric cars are available in Europe now.. 
>so
> > > > maybe not so far away.
> > > >
> > > > I am planning on geothermal which should certainly help with the
> > > > cooling... as it turns out I have to dig a well on this property 
>even
> > > > though it is fairly Urban... a very old and small neighborhood where
> > > > most have wells already so no impetus to provide city water.  which 
>is
> > > > just fine with me. The well drilling company I plan to use already 
>has
> > > > experience drilling the geothermal holes as well... so one-stop
> > > shopping.
> > > >
> > > > Also already planning on the SIP approach... trying to blend the
> > > > energy-efficiency with some interesting architecture aside from the
> > > > typical Colonial or brick ranch that is common in this area.  
>Thought
> > > > seriously about doing a dome, but decided against it for this area 
>for
> > > > asset-protection reasons.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the good info!
> > > >
> > > > Saroj
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Haslett" 
><flybrad at gmail.com>
> > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 1:01 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Good News - Gas Prices Falling
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bill & Saroj,
> > > >
> > > > Bill, the Jetta will work for me.  I've owned a couple of early 80's
> > > > diesel
> > > > Rabbits and a diesel Audi 4000 (same drive train) The Rabbit 
>hatchback
> > > is
> > > > coming back but I prefer a sedan.  I flew GDL, Mexico all last month
> > > > where
> > > > the Jetta is built.  They just settled their strike and hopefully 
>the
> > > > quality will be good.
> > > >
> > > > Saroj, diesel-hybrids are off the shelf technology and my company 
>did
> > a
> > > > joint-venture with Eaton to produce diesel-hybrid delivery
> > trucks.  Duh!
> > > > Think trains and WW2 submarines.  You should expect 80mpg+ when they
> > > come
> > > > but when will that be?  I'll move earlier and go with a straight
> > > > diesel and
> > > > hope for rapeseed biodiesel.  The only way to go with the home is
> > > > insulated
> > > > concrete forms and geo-thermal radiant heating.  Cooling is another
> > > > issue.
> > > > A nuke powerplant running A/C is the ticket.  You have no control
> > > > where your
> > > > electrons come from but they probably come from coal.
> > > >
> > > > Didn't we have this same discussion in the 70's?
> > > >
> > > > Brad
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 9/15/06, Saroj Gilbert <saroj at pathfind.net> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I hear you on that... as for me... I'm looking to diesel hybrid for
> > my
> > > >> next
> > > >> car... and currently doing intensive research on how to make my new
> > > >> house
> > > >> (yet to be built) use as little non-renewable energy as possible...
> > > >> quite
> > > >> an
> > > >> interesting exploration for me... refreshing information that I
> > hadn't
> > > >> read
> > > >> too much about since I subscribed to Mother Earth News in the
> > > >> 70's.  Heating
> > > >> shouldn't be a problem but dealing with the hot, humid summers will
> > be
> > > >> challenging.
> > > >>
> > > >> Its hard to balance the economics on electricity usage in this area
> > > >> (S.E.
> > > >> VA) since it is so very low... 6 cents a KW if I remember 
>correctly;
> > > >> however
> > > >> I feel strongly about it and will do whatever I can... luckily I 
>work
> > > >> out
> > > >> of
> > > >> my home and the new house will be so close to a lot of services 
>that
> > I
> > > >> should be able to ride the bike a lot of places.
> > > >>
> > > >> Saroj
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> > > >> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 11:54 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Good News - Gas Prices Falling
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Saroj,
> > > >>
> > > >> Maybe, I don't agree with all the premises of the article but
> > > everything
> > > >> does line up for a fall, just not as far as the author
> > suggested.  The
> > > >> unfortunate repercussion is that it will encourage us to go back to
> > our
> > > >> foolish ways.  Peak Oil is coming!  The folks who have the most oil
> > are
> > > >> still the same folks who hate us the most.  The two fastest growing
> > oil
> > > >> consuming nations, China and India, aren't slowing down. China
> > doesn't
> > > >> give
> > > >> a shit about anything but China, and they're cutting deals 
>everywhere
> > > >> for
> > > >> every commodity.  I can't make my jet or our equipment burn less
> > > >> fuel, but
> > > >> my next car *will *get 50mpg+.  Hopefully it won't smell like 
>shrimp.
> > > >>
> > > >> Brad
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 9/15/06, Saroj Gilbert <saroj at pathfind.net> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > That would be good news...
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> > From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> > > >> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >> > Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 9:23 AM
> > > >> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Good News - Gas Prices Falling
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > <http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/home/>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 12:00 AM
> > > >> >
> > > >> > *.*
> > > >> >
> > > >> > **
> > > >> > *
> > > >> > **Analyst predicts plunge in gas prices*
> > > >> >
> > > >> > *By Kevin G. Hall*
> > > >> > *McClatchy Newspapers*
> > > >> >
> > > >> > WASHINGTON - The recent sharp drop in the global price of crude 
>oil
> > > >> could
> > > >> > mark the start of a massive sell-off that returns gasoline prices
> > to
> > > >> lows
> > > >> > not seen since the late 1990s - perhaps as low as $1.15 a gallon.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > "All the hurricane flags are flying" in oil markets, said Philip
> > > >> Verleger,
> > > >> > a
> > > >> > noted energy consultant who was a lone voice several years ago in
> > > >> warning
> > > >> > that oil prices would soar. Now, he says, they appear to be 
>poised
> > > >> for a
> > > >> > dramatic plunge.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Crude-oil prices have fallen about $14, or roughly 17 percent, 
>from
> > > >> their
> > > >> > July 14 peak of $78.40. After falling seven straight days, they
> > rose
> > > >> > slightly Wednesday in trading on the New York Mercantile 
>Exchange,
> > to
> > > >> > $63.97, partly in reaction to a government report showing fuel
> > > >> inventories
> > > >> > a
> > > >> > bit lower than expected. But the overall price drop is expected 
>to
> > > >> > continue,
> > > >> > and prices could fall much more in the weeks and months ahead.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Here's why:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > For most of the past two years, oil prices have risen because the
> > > >> world's
> > > >> > oil producers have struggled to keep pace with growing demand,
> > > >> > particularly
> > > >> > from China and India. Spare oil-production capacity grew so tight
> > > that
> > > >> > market players feared that any disruption to oil production could
> > > >> create
> > > >> > shortages.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Fear of disruption focused on fighting in Nigeria, escalating
> > > tensions
> > > >> > over
> > > >> > Iran's nuclear program, violence between Israel and Lebanon that
> > > might
> > > >> > spread to oil-producing neighbors, and the prospect that 
>hurricanes
> > > >> might
> > > >> > topple oil facilities in the Gulf of Mexico.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Oil traders bet that such worrisome developments would drive up 
>the
> > > >> future
> > > >> > price of oil. Oil is traded in contracts for future delivery, and
> > > >> > companies
> > > >> > that take physical delivery of oil are just a small part of total
> > > >> trading.
> > > >> > Large pension and commodities funds are the big traders and 
>they're
> > > >> > seeking
> > > >> > profits. They've sunk $105 billion or more into oil futures in
> > recent
> > > >> > years,
> > > >> > according to Verleger. Their bets that oil prices would rise in 
>the
> > > >> future
> > > >> > bid up the price of oil.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > That, in turn, led users of oil to create stockpiles as cushions
> > > >> against
> > > >> > supply disruptions and even higher future prices. Now inventories
> > > >> of oil
> > > >> > are
> > > >> > approaching 1990 levels.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > But many of the conditions that drove investors to bid up oil
> > > >> prices are
> > > >> > ebbing. Tensions over Israel, Lebanon and Nigeria are easing. The
> > > >> > hurricane
> > > >> > season has presented no threat so far to the Gulf of Mexico. The
> > U.S.
> > > >> peak
> > > >> > summer driving season is over, so gasoline demand is falling.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > With fear of supply disruptions ebbing, oil prices began sliding.
> > > With
> > > >> oil
> > > >> > inventories high, refiners that turn oil into gasoline are 
>expected
> > > to
> > > >> cut
> > > >> > production. As refiners cut production, oil companies 
>increasingly
> > > >> risk
> > > >> > getting stuck with excess oil supplies. There's already anecdotal
> > > >> evidence
> > > >> > of oil companies chartering tankers to store excess oil.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > All this is turning financial markets increasingly bearish on 
>oil.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > "If we continue to build inventories, and if we have a warm 
>winter
> > > >> like
> > > >> we
> > > >> > had last winter, you could see a large fall in the price of oil,"
> > > said
> > > >> > Gary
> > > >> > Pokoik, who manages Hedge Ventures Energy in Los Angeles, an 
>energy
> > > >> hedge
> > > >> > fund. "I think there is still a lot of risk in the market."
> > > >> >
> > > >> > As it stands now, the recent oil-price slump has brought the
> > national
> > > >> > average for a gallon of unleaded gasoline down to $2.59, 
>according
> > to
> > > >> the
> > > >> > AAA motor club. In the Seattle area, prices per gallon have 
>fallen
> > to
> > > >> > $2.856
> > > >> > currently from $3.071 a month ago, a decline of 7 percent,
> > > >> according to
> > > >> > AAA.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Should oil traders fear that this downward price spiral will get
> > > worse
> > > >> and
> > > >> > run for the exits by selling off their futures contracts, 
>Verleger
> > > >> said,
> > > >> > it's not unthinkable that oil prices could return to $15 or less 
>a
> > > >> barrel,
> > > >> > at least temporarily. That could mean gasoline prices as low as
> > $1.15
> > > >> per
> > > >> > gallon.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Other experts won't guess at a floor price, but they agree that a
> > > race
> > > >> to
> > > >> > the bottom could break out.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > "The market may test levels here that are too low to be 
>sustained,"
> > > >> said
> > > >> > Clay Seigle, an analyst at Cambridge Energy Research Associates, 
>a
> > > >> > consultancy in Boston.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Monday, the oil-producing cartel OPEC hinted that if prices 
>fall
> > > >> > precipitously, OPEC members would cut production to lift them. 
>But
> > > >> that
> > > >> > would take time.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > "That takes six to nine months. If we don't have a really cold
> > winter
> > > >> here
> > > >> > [creating a demand for oil], prices will fall. Literally, you 
>don't
> > > >> know
> > > >> > where the floor is," Verleger said. "In a market like this, if
> > things
> > > >> > start
> > > >> > falling ... prices could take you back to the 1999 levels. It has
> > > >> nothing
> > > >> > to
> > > >> > do with production."
> > > >> >
> > > >> > <http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/general/copyright.html>
> > > >> > __________________________________________________
> > > >> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
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