[Rhodes22-list] Reply to Phillip & Hank - political (Bill E need not look herein)

[Tootle]

Phillip:

                A long time ago I learned that you cannot reason with
ignorance.  Here in the good old USA we have people who base their beliefs
on what appears to others as ignorance.  After I moved to Greenville, SC,
years ago I was introduced to a population that lived on the west side of
the City of Greenville.  They were mostly from a town called City View.  At
that time it was a town in the true sense.  It had a mayor, city hall, fire
department, etc.  What got your attention were the ‘people’.  
	Me and my kind were always trying to better ourselves and get ahead.  With
these people I was introduced to a population who were ignorant and proud of
it.  They did not want to get ahead, nor improve their lot.  No amount of
trying to get them to change their way of thinking worked.  Many tried and
they just did not get anywhere.  It was an amazing experience.  
	One unique think about that population was how you knew who they were.  You
could smell them coming.  They simply did not believe in baths.  They did
not observe simple personal hygiene.  
	The above is an illustration that there are other people in the world. 
What you believe to be good reason just may not be accepted by others.  When
that happens you just move on or out of the way.  In sailor talk, trying to
reason with all others sometimes is like pissing into the wind. 

Ed K
Greenville, SC, USA
 





3drecon wrote:
> 
> If I have (or had) $100,000.00 coming, I sure would like to know where to
> get it.  I say again, I received no bonus, I receive no bonus other than
> the basic compensation for someone in service with my rank and longevity. 
> The only signing bonus I ever received was $1800.00 when I joined the USMC
> in 1972 to because I had elected infantry as my MOS.
> 
> Line officers, warrent officers and senior NCOs receive NO bonuses.  Only
> Doctors, and Dentists.  Pilots get routine flight pay, paratroops get jump
> pay (but they have to put in so many jumps per month), submariners get
> submarine pay etc.  These are all hardship compensation that stops when
> they leave that duty.
> 
> Philip
> 
> 
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> 
> 
>> Hank, 
>> 
>> Philip said people who complain about casualties can't explain 
>> reenlistment rates. I said that signing bonuses explain reenlistment
>> rates. 
>> 
>> I infer from your note that Philip is an officer and received a "signing 
>> bonus" or some other military euphemism for "huge amount of money paid 
>> to induce people to risk their lives". It is my understanding that some 
>> of these payments are in excess of $100,000. Do I have that wrong? 
>> 
>> Bill Effros 
>> 
>> Hank wrote: 
>> > Bill, 
>> > 
>> > Once again, you spoke with thinking or checking your facts. Officers 
>> > do not 
>> > re-enlist. Re-enlistment bonuses are only paid to enlisted. Some 
>> > Officers 
>> > in certain specialties such as Doctors and Dentists get yearly bonuses 
>> > but 
>> > this is because of their extensive training and desparity with pay in
>> the 
>> > civilian sector. 
>> > 
>> > Hank 
>> > 
>> > On 10/25/06, Bill Effros wrote: 
>> >> 
>> >> Brad, 
>> >> 
>> >> As Philip well knows, the Army is paying huge reenlistment bonuses. In 
>> >> fact, I believe Philip was one of the recipients. 
>> >> 
>> >> I have no problem with that, but let's not confuse a mercenary army
>> with 
>> >> a patriotic army. 
>> >> 
>> >> Bill Effros 
>> >> 
>> >> 3drecon at comcast.net wrote: 
>> >> > Brad, 
>> >> > The point Ron made about the soldier casualties is a common 
>> >> complaint. What they cannot explain is why the reenlistment and 
>> >> extension 
>> >> rate is higher for those who have gone to the "sandbox" than in the 
>> >> general 
>> >> population. Everyone, (I say again) Everyone, in the military to-day 
>> >> is a 
>> >> volunteer. No one, at this point in time, can say they didn't expect 
>> >> to go 
>> >> to war (that might have been an argument in 2001 but not now, an 
>> >> argument 
>> >> for which I have little sympathy. The military is not here for social 
>> >> benefit but for fighting). 
>> >> > 
>> >> > LTC Philip Esteban 
>> >> > 
>> >> > -------------- Original message -------------- 
>> >> > From: "Brad Haslett" 
>> >> > 
>> >> > 
>> >> >> Common leftest screed (thank-you Bill) , I've read your post twice 
>> >> Ron 
>> >> and 
>> >> >> still can't find any new ideas. 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> As to North Korea, I believe it was the "negotiations" and 
>> >> appeasement 
>> >> of 
>> >> >> the previous administration that got us into this mess. How should
>> we 
>> >> >> respond? We have roughly 30,000 of our own troops in harms way on
>> the 
>> >> >> border (been there since the 50's) plus several million South 
>> >> Koreans. 
>> >> The 
>> >> >> North can lob 5000 conventional shells at once and we have to
>> figure 
>> >> out 
>> >> >> which one contains the nuke. Yes indeed, what a mess. Our best hope 
>> >> there 
>> >> >> is help from China. More troops on the ground would only mean more 
>> >> troops 
>> >> >> killed in the first day. We should think twice about allowing a 
>> >> similar 
>> >> >> situation with another rouge nation developing again, hence our 
>> >> invasion of 
>> >> >> Iraq. After all, regime change was the official policy of the
>> Clinton 
>> >> >> administration. Let me repeat this one more time - the 
>> >> authorization to 
>> >> >> invade Iraq was approved by the Congress. Of course some will say
>> for 
>> >> >> political reasons they were duped, but they had access to the same 
>> >> >> intel - politics as usual. 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> How many Iraqi citizens were killed by Saddam? A hell of a lot more 
>> >> than 
>> >> >> by our invasion. How many more will be killed if we leave. John
>> Kerry 
>> >> >> estimated less than 300,000 in Vietnam. He was only off by 3
>> million. 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> What do you think we should do Ron, pull out and declare victory? 
>> >> Well, 
>> >> if 
>> >> >> so, why quit at half-measures. Let's disband the TSA and eliminate 
>> >> the 
>> >> long 
>> >> >> line at the airports. After all, we have no enemies from the crazy 
>> >> fringe 
>> >> >> of the Islamic world, right? Let's kiss and make up with the 
>> >> French so 
>> >> >> they'll come to our side and bravely fight, just as they are in
>> their 
>> >> own 
>> >> >> country right now. Ah yes, those wonderful allies we pissed off. 
>> >> Please 
>> >> >> remind me who we offended that weren't trading goods with Saddam. 
>> >> Germany, 
>> >> >> nope! Russia, nope! China, silly question! I forget, help me here, 
>> >> who 
>> >> >> are these allies again? 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> This war is ugly, they all are. We went for the right reasons. 
>> >> What we 
>> >> are 
>> >> >> seeing now is not unlike Tet in Vietnam. We won that remember, and 
>> >> then 
>> >> >> gave the enemy time to regroup at the peace table. Indeed, history 
>> >> can 
>> >> be a 
>> >> >> bitch. 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> Brad 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> On 10/24/06, Ronald Lipton wrote: 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >>> New idea? Better ideas? 
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>> - Did I think invading Iraq was a good idea? NO 
>> >> >>> Were there weapons of mass distruction - NO 
>> >> >>> Were there real terrorist bases - NO 
>> >> >>> Did we give any thought to the internal politics? NO 
>> >> >>> Did we alienate our allies by our arrogance? YES. 
>> >> >>> Have we crippled our volunteer forces by throwing 
>> >> >>> away lives in a worse than useless situation? 
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>> How many soldiers have been killed? (~2900) 
>> >> >>> Maimed - many more 
>> >> >>> How many Iraqi civilians? 
>> >> >>> How many of their families blame the US and will take up
>> terrorism? 
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>> We have been weakened to the point that we can't 
>> >> >>> effectively respond to real threats from N. Korea. 
>> >> >>> God what a mess. 
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>> I don't see any real thought given to actions which gravely 
>> >> >>> affect the US and the rest of the world. 
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>> I don't want to see this country continue to be run by a group 
>> >> >>> of idiots and ideologues who seem to be completely disconnected 
>> >> >>> from reality. If soldiers are put in harms way there should be a 
>> >> >>> good reason. I see nothing but negative consequences. 
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>> Do I have better Ideas? It's like asking someone pushed out 
>> >> >>> of a window - how to get back up there? 
>> >> >>> Is there any path out of this mess - you tell me, but I believe
>> that 
>> >> >>> this is the most disastrous administration in the history of this 
>> >> >>> country. Nero probably did a worse job for Rome. 
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>> Ron 
>> >> >>> On Oct 23, 2006, at 10:42 PM, Brad Haslett wrote: 
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>>> Bob, 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>> Thanks for the post. There are letters like this quite often on
>> the 
>> >> >>>> milblogs I frequent. Also, I have a co-worker with a Marine son
>> in 
>> >> >>>> Iraq who 
>> >> >>>> forwards updates from time to time. This may be a SHOCK to the 
>> >> >>>> lefties in 
>> >> >>>> the world but our military is all volunteer and for the most part 
>> >> very 
>> >> >>>> motivated. The reaction you got on the list was predictable and
>> not 
>> >> >>>> unlike 
>> >> >>>> the reactions from the usual suspects anytime something that 
>> >> doesn't 
>> >> >>>> fit 
>> >> >>>> their perceptions gets published. They get the New York times 
>> >> version 
>> >> >>>> of 
>> >> >>>> reality everyday from someone who's never been out of the Green 
>> >> Zone 
>> >> >>>> and 
>> >> >>>> believe that, but gawd forbid they listen to the wisdom of a
>> common 
>> >> >>>> foot-soldier. No one likes this war, or any war for that matter, 
>> >> but 
>> >> >>>> this 
>> >> >>>> kid in the letter pretty much nailed it. We fight them there now
>> or 
>> >> >>>> here 
>> >> >>>> later. Did you see on the news this evening that youths are
>> burning 
>> >> >>>> buses 
>> >> >>>> in France? Nope? What kind of youths? Of course the French can't 
>> >> say 
>> >> >>>> it. Radical Islamists! Keep your head in the sand folks. This
>> ain't 
>> >> >>>> goin' 
>> >> >>>> away anytime soon. We can argue about the methods or the chosen 
>> >> >>>> battlefield 
>> >> >>>> but the war declared by them a long time ago. What was our first 
>> >> >>>> reaction? Wear sweaters! 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>> Here's what really pisses me off. Where are the new ideas? All I 
>> >> >>>> hear this 
>> >> >>>> election cycle is let's tuck tail and run, then hope for the 
>> >> best. Is 
>> >> >>>> this 
>> >> >>>> a strategy? Criticism and disagreement is one thing - attempting 
>> >> >>>> dialogue 
>> >> >>>> with, or worse, ignoring enemies who want to cut your head off is 
>> >> >>>> stupid. Oh 
>> >> >>>> I forget, cutting off heads is only for old time's sake, until
>> they 
>> >> >>>> can get 
>> >> >>>> their WMD programs running again. 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>> Brad 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>> On 10/23/06, Bob Keller wrote: 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>>> Got this from my brother and wanted to pass it on. 
>> >> >>>>> Bob 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> This is from a co-worker at HP who's son left for Iraq today.
>> This 
>> >> >>>>> comes 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>> to 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>>> me directly from his Dad. I will be getting periodic updates
>> from 
>> >> him 
>> >> >>>>> and 
>> >> >>>>> will forward. I will take the last name off so as to protect his 
>> >> >>>>> privacy, 
>> >> >>>>> but forward on, because these brave troops need our continued 
>> >> support 
>> >> >>>>> and 
>> >> >>>>> prayers. 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> Bill 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> Everyone, 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> Well after months and months of yakking about it the day is 
>> >> finally 
>> >> >>>>> here?well almost here, just have to go to sleep tonight (we'll
>> see 
>> >> >>>>> about 
>> >> >>>>> that) and it'll be here tomorrow. I'm sure pretty much everyone
>> is 
>> >> >>>>> wondering what I'm thinking right now, what are my feelings, 
>> >> and all 
>> >> >>>>> that 
>> >> >>>>> other stuff?I guess I'm going to be super-cool and spill it for 
>> >> you, 
>> >> >>>>> just 
>> >> >>>>> because I'm that awesome. :c) 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> I'm ready to get going, and I have been ready since my last 
>> >> visit to 
>> >> >>>>> Colorado?sitting around here this last week or so is just awful, 
>> >> >>>>> waiting 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>> is 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>>> never fun?gives you too much time to think, and a lot of the
>> time 
>> >> >>>>> thinking 
>> >> >>>>> gets you in trouble. I am ready to wage this war against 
>> >> >>>>> militant-Islam, 
>> >> >>>>> because it is something that absolutely has to be done. Some 
>> >> look at 
>> >> >>>>> Iraq 
>> >> >>>>> and just see Saddam and WMD and that MY BOSS was wrong to go in 
>> >> there 
>> >> >>>>> (btw 
>> >> >>>>> we found enough WMD to kill everyone in Baghdad, but I guess you 
>> >> >>>>> didn't 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>> hear 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>>> or read about that anywhere, ask me if you really want
>> details?oh, 
>> >> and 
>> >> >>>>> Saddam really was a horrible asshole?pardon my language to both
>> my 
>> >> >>>>> grandmothers?), but it is well past that point?Iraq is the line
>> in 
>> >> the 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>> sand 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>>> between civilized nations and Islamic fascism, because whether
>> you 
>> >> >>>>> want to 
>> >> >>>>> believe it or not, there are a large group of people out there
>> who 
>> >> >>>>> want 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>> you 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>>> and everyone else dead unless you convert to their way of 
>> >> thinking. 
>> >> >>>>> The 
>> >> >>>>> great thing about Iraq is that all these idiots have decided it 
>> >> is a 
>> >> >>>>> lot 
>> >> >>>>> easier to fight us there than it is to come to the United 
>> >> States and 
>> >> >>>>> fight 
>> >> >>>>> you?which I am fine with, because I'm going to be so horribly
>> well 
>> >> >>>>> armed 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>> and 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>>> armored that I welcome their best shot at destroying everything
>> I 
>> >> have 
>> >> >>>>> dedicated my life to defend. 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> While I'm gone I encourage all of you to live it up for me?I
>> can't 
>> >> do 
>> >> >>>>> it, 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>> so 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>>> you all should do it double for me?take those extra few days 
>> >> off of 
>> >> >>>>> work, 
>> >> >>>>> take that trip, try for that double on your dirt bike, fish 
>> >> that run 
>> >> >>>>> one 
>> >> >>>>> more time, let your kid stay up that extra 15 minutes, stay in
>> the 
>> >> >>>>> duck-blind 15 more minutes after you think the birds have
>> stopped 
>> >> >>>>> flying, 
>> >> >>>>> drink that extra drink?I think you get the idea?everyone has
>> that 
>> >> >>>>> area in 
>> >> >>>>> their life where they can indulge, so I encourage you all to do
>> it 
>> >> >>>>> for me. 
>> >> >>>>> The only thing that I am worried about going into Iraq is 
>> >> letting my 
>> >> >>>>> guys 
>> >> >>>>> down, letting all of you down, and letting my country down; and
>> I 
>> >> can 
>> >> >>>>> tell 
>> >> >>>>> you with all of my heart that it is NOT in my intention to do 
>> >> any of 
>> >> >>>>> those 
>> >> >>>>> things. I promise you all that I will be careful, but at the
>> same 
>> >> >>>>> time I 
>> >> >>>>> promise that I will kick the ever-living CRAP out of anyone that 
>> >> >>>>> presents 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>> a 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>>> threat to me or you...they WILL die, and they'll do it before I 
>> >> do. 
>> >> >>>>> This 
>> >> >>>>> war is the most important war that has been fought since WW2, 
>> >> easily, 
>> >> >>>>> if 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>> not 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>>> more so. The things that we do tomorrow and in the next five
>> years 
>> >> >>>>> will 
>> >> >>>>> shape the world as we know it for centuries to come?if we leave 
>> >> Iraq 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>> before 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>>> we win the fight then all of the western world is in danger,
>> just 
>> >> >>>>> remember 
>> >> >>>>> that?and I will elaborate on that fact in the future. So happy 
>> >> >>>>> trails to 
>> >> >>>>> all of you, and I will frequently be in touch, just say a 'lil 
>> >> prayer 
>> >> >>>>> for 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>> me 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>>> and I'll do alright. 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> God Bless and Love, 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> Matt 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> Matthew 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> 1st Cavalry Division, Ft. Hood TX 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>>
>> _________________________________________________________________ 
>> >> >>>>> Try the next generation of search with Windows Live Search
>> today! 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>> http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en- 
>> >> >>>> us&source=hmtagline 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>>> __________________________________________________ 
>> >> >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>>> 
>> >> >>>> __________________________________________________ 
>> >> >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>>> 
>> >> >>> __________________________________________________ 
>> >> >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list 
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >> __________________________________________________ 
>> >> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list 
>> >> >> 
>> >> > __________________________________________________ 
>> >> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list 
>> >> > 
>> >> > 
>> >> __________________________________________________ 
>> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list 
>> >> 
>> > __________________________________________________ 
>> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list 
>> > 
>> __________________________________________________ 
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list 
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Political%3AOff-to-Iraq--NO-Bonus-tf2508478.html#a6996202
Sent from the Rhodes22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.