[Rhodes22-list] Politics: Pat Tillman's Brother Speaks

[Herb Parsons]

Sorry Bill, you only get to speak for yourself, you don't speak for
"We".

Some of us know why we are there. Some of us know what we're trying to
do. Just because you don't, does not mean you speak for all.

Herb Parsons

S/V O'Jure
1976 O'Day 25
Lake Grapevine, N TX

S/V Reve de Papa
1971 Coronado 35
Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast 

>>> bill at effros.com 10/25/2006 10:19:26 am >>>
Hank,

Most of the people fighting us right now are Iraqis.

Wait...This just in from our President:

"Americans have no intention of taking sides in a sectarian struggle or

standing in the crossfire between rival factions."

Hank,

We're going to cut and run.  Not because I advocate it, because I 
don't.  But we're going to cut and run.  No matter who is President or

who controls congress.  We haven't the slightest idea of why we are 
there, or what we are trying to do.  More Americans have been killed in

Iraq since 9/11 than died in the United States on 9/11. 

If the strategy is to keep Americans from being killed by radical 
Islamists, it's backfiring.

Bill Effros



Hank wrote:
> Bill,
>
> We did not go to Iraq to fight extremist Islam.  Extremist Islam,
most of
> them non-iraqis, came to Iraq to fight us.  They picked the fight,
now 
> what
> do we do?  Run, because we got our nose bloodied?  I sure hope not.
>
> Hank
>
> On 10/25/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hank,
>>
>> Neither of us has taken a poll of personnel who are currently on
active
>> duty.  For every returning soldier who supports your views, I can
find
>> another who does not.  Their opinions are entirely beside the
point.
>>
>> Now we are in Iraq to fight extremist Islam?  We have placed our
>> soldiers in the middle of a religious civil war.  There are extreme
>> Islamists on both sides, and both sides are shooting at our kids
when we
>> get in the way.   What constitutes a "win"?  Is it a "win" because
>> everyone we kill (including civilians) is an Islamist?
>>
>> Be very careful how you answer.  There are more practicing Islamists
in
>> the world today than there are practicing Christians.  Do you
really
>> think we have enough technology to be able to kill them all?  If
Iraq is
>> the beta test, this is a project that should be dropped, and the
sooner
>> the better.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> Hank wrote:
>> > Bill,
>> >
>> > Kevin Tillman is entitled to his opinion and I suspect a large
part of
>> > it is
>> > due to his bitterness at his brother being killed by a friendly
fire
>> > incident.  However, if you took a poll of personnel who are 
>> currently on
>> > active duty, the vast majority of them would say that they have
good
>> > morale
>> > and that they feel we should be there.  I know as I have many
friends
>> > currently on active duty and I served 20+ years on active duty.
>> >
>> > Brad has hit the nail right on the head about this being the
chosen
>> > battle
>> > ground against extremist Islam and if it wasn't there, then it 
>> would be
>> > somewhere else.  They're not going to stop until either they or us
are
>> > dead.
>> > Which side of that equation do you want to be on?
>> >
>> > Hank
>> >
>> > On 10/25/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> After Pat's Birthday
>> >>
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601019_after_pats_birthday/ 
>> >> Posted on Oct 19, 2006
>> >>
>> >> By Kevin Tillman
>> >>
>> >> Editor's note: Kevin Tillman joined the Army with his brother Pat
in
>> >> 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Pat was

>> killed
>> >> in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. Kevin, who was discharged in
2005,
>> has
>> >> written a powerful, must-read document.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> It is Pat's birthday on November 6, and elections are the day
>> after.  It
>> >> gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we
joined
>> >> the military.  He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. 
How
>> >> once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American
leadership 
>> and
>> >> the American people.  How we could be thrown in a direction not
of 
>> our
>> >> volition.  How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a
voice*
>> >> until we got out.
>> >>
>> >> Much has happened since we handed over our voice:
>> >>
>> >> Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct 
>> threat
>> >> to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists,

>> or was
>> >> involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade 
>> uranium
>> >> from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to
be
>> >> liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an
>> insurgency,
>> >> or stop a civil war we created that can't be called a civil war
even
>> >> though it is.  Something like that.
>> >>
>> >> Somehow America has become a country that projects everything
that it
>> is
>> >> not and condemns everything that it is.
>> >>
>> >> Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law
and
>> >> humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly
>> >> kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly
not
>> >> charging them with anything, secretly torturing them.  Somehow
that
>> >> overt policy of torture became the fault of a few "bad apples" in
the
>> >> military.
>> >>
>> >> Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a
>> >> five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and
send
>> it
>> >> overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for
an
>> >> extra pad in a helmet.  It's interesting that a soldier on his 
>> third or
>> >> fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or
a
>> faded
>> >> sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad
in a
>> >> helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle
50
>> feet
>> >> into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the
seat