[Rhodes22-list] Political:Off to Iraq re: Dave

[Bill Effros]

No, Brad,

Philip did not miss the point.  He and I disagree about many things, but 
he is intellectually honest, and reading his replies often increases the 
amount of accurate information available to people without first-hand 
knowledge of the current situation.

As I said previously, and I will say again: I think people should be 
well paid for their service in the armed forces.  I think it is wrong to 
hire outside contractors for more money than we pay people in uniform.  
I think anyone who joins the armed forces in support of our disastrous 
foreign policy doesn't understand the current geopolitical situation 
very well.  I get angry when I hear people urge others to sacrifice 
their sons and daughters for policies they would not sacrifice their own 
lives, or the lives of their own sons and daughters.

I have been very consistent in my views on this matter going all the way 
back to the Korean War.  Before Philip left for Iraq I stated those 
views on this list.  Philip made his decision, and that's his business.  
I certainly did not wish him ill, (as some have suggested) and felt 
relieved when he rejoined the list.  I look forward to reading his 
replies in the hope that they will add to the light and not just to the 
heat.

Bill Effros

Brad Haslett wrote:
> Phillip,
>
> You are missing the point.  Read between the lines. The implication is
> that our soldiers only fight for the money or they're too stupid to find
> employment in the private sector.  Don't even waste your time 
> defending the
> issue.  It's all a hangover from the Vietnam era but they'll never 
> admit it
> until their ass is on the line.
>
> Remember, "Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only 
> because
> rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
>
> Brad
>
> On 10/26/06, 3drecon at comcast.net <3drecon at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Dave,
>>    Look, I've been doing this, active duty, USMC and Army, Army Reserves
>> and CT Army National Guard (I have an anniversary comming up) and I know
>> what is usual and not.  I also know what these guys get paid,
>> generally.  SPEC OPS Navy may have trouble recruiting officers.  They 
>> just
>> decided to create a "fighting" land battalion.  The Army may pay 
>> bonuses to
>> enlisted folks, but only for hard to recruit positions.  They will pay
>> reenlistment bonuses because a trained experienced Specialist 4 or 
>> Corporal
>> is more valuable to them than a raw recruit, though they too are 
>> necessary.
>>     The soldiers in the combat zone receive a tax break, recently 
>> updated
>> to keep up with the increased pay (it used to be full for enlisted 
>> and $500
>> for officers.  It has been increased to $7000 per month or so).  The 
>> break
>> seems to deliberately cover lower grades in full; those who would be 
>> more
>> likely to be in the "heat of battle" as opposed to the senior guys who
>> direct the battle.
>>     The extra pay includes combat pay, hazardous duty pay, overseas pay,
>> family separation pay, jump pay (if you are on jump status), flight pay,
>> submarine pay etc.  This is not all inclusive.  Some of these special 
>> pays
>> have only been recently increased.  I have known a few soldiers who 
>> would go
>> to the AOR just to collect the extra pay, but mostly it is a perk for 
>> those
>> in their regular rotation.  Many volunteer to go sooner than later to 
>> "get
>> it over with" and collect the extra pay to boot.  I've known a couple of
>> guys who went early so they could get a better assignment earlier and
>> wouldn't have to go again for two years or so.  It depends upon the
>> person.  None of these guys are trying to get rich in the service.  They
>> have so diminished the benefits and retirement that in a discussion with
>> several officers we observed that at one time, you could survey a 
>> group of
>> soldiers in a room and 60% to 70% would indicate they are in for a
>> career.  Now (this conversation was two y
>> ears a
>> go but holds up to-day) you would be lucky if 30% held the same
>> position.  It has more to do with the economy, the erosion of 
>> benefits and
>> health care that they don't see it as worth it.  I think Bill hit it
>> partially right too that sergeants will get out and triple their pay 
>> as a
>> contractor doing what they did on active duty.  That is part of the 
>> economy
>> element.
>>
>> Philip
>>
>> -------------- Original message --------------
>> From: DCLewis1 at aol.com
>>
>> >
>> > Philip,
>> >
>> > $150/mo doesn't seem like a lot of $ to you or I, but to a young
>> Corporal
>> > it's a lot of beer.
>> >
>> > I personally know an Army wife who is quite happy to have her husband
>> posted
>> > to Afghanistan because of the additional $. Seems crazy to me (will 
>> this
>> > marriage last?), but it's true.
>> >
>> > Dave
>> > __________________________________________________
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