[Rhodes22-list] Political:Off to Iraq re: Dave

[Brad Haslett]

Bill,

I'll take your response at face value, I know you're a sincere man.  Several
of my co-workers are in leadership positions in Air Guard and Reserve units,
including three Air Force generals.  In a sad commentary on the airline
industry, many furloughed or otherwise impoverished airline pilots have
returned to active duty because the pay is better.  The military spends
millions training pilots and others with specialized skills so it only makes
economic sense to pay enough to compete with the private sector.

What is the correct solution to the current geo-political situation?  As I
pointed out in an earlier post, you can't draw, film, act, or write in
several Western cultures without fear of having your throat slit.  You can't
drag booze to Slim's without knowing the color code.  Where does it end?  We
know about the destruction of thousand year old Buddha statues in
Afghanastan, girls not allowed to attend school, flying kites, etc., and
then 9/11.  I might tolerate it as being on their soil and not our problem
but for one small problem:  it happened on our soil!

Someone, anyone, please outline the alternative solution.  Frankly, I don't
think a roundtable discussion in Paris is going to work.

Brad


On 10/26/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
> No, Brad,
>
> Philip did not miss the point.  He and I disagree about many things, but
> he is intellectually honest, and reading his replies often increases the
> amount of accurate information available to people without first-hand
> knowledge of the current situation.
>
> As I said previously, and I will say again: I think people should be
> well paid for their service in the armed forces.  I think it is wrong to
> hire outside contractors for more money than we pay people in uniform.
> I think anyone who joins the armed forces in support of our disastrous
> foreign policy doesn't understand the current geopolitical situation
> very well.  I get angry when I hear people urge others to sacrifice
> their sons and daughters for policies they would not sacrifice their own
> lives, or the lives of their own sons and daughters.
>
> I have been very consistent in my views on this matter going all the way
> back to the Korean War.  Before Philip left for Iraq I stated those
> views on this list.  Philip made his decision, and that's his business.
> I certainly did not wish him ill, (as some have suggested) and felt
> relieved when he rejoined the list.  I look forward to reading his
> replies in the hope that they will add to the light and not just to the
> heat.
>
> Bill Effros
>
> Brad Haslett wrote:
> > Phillip,
> >
> > You are missing the point.  Read between the lines. The implication is
> > that our soldiers only fight for the money or they're too stupid to find
> > employment in the private sector.  Don't even waste your time
> > defending the
> > issue.  It's all a hangover from the Vietnam era but they'll never
> > admit it
> > until their ass is on the line.
> >
> > Remember, "Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only
> > because
> > rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
> >
> > Brad
> >
> > On 10/26/06, 3drecon at comcast.net <3drecon at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dave,
> >>    Look, I've been doing this, active duty, USMC and Army, Army
> Reserves
> >> and CT Army National Guard (I have an anniversary comming up) and I
> know
> >> what is usual and not.  I also know what these guys get paid,
> >> generally.  SPEC OPS Navy may have trouble recruiting officers.  They
> >> just
> >> decided to create a "fighting" land battalion.  The Army may pay
> >> bonuses to
> >> enlisted folks, but only for hard to recruit positions.  They will pay
> >> reenlistment bonuses because a trained experienced Specialist 4 or
> >> Corporal
> >> is more valuable to them than a raw recruit, though they too are
> >> necessary.
> >>     The soldiers in the combat zone receive a tax break, recently
> >> updated
> >> to keep up with the increased pay (it used to be full for enlisted
> >> and $500
> >> for officers.  It has been increased to $7000 per month or so).  The
> >> break
> >> seems to deliberately cover lower grades in full; those who would be
> >> more
> >> likely to be in the "heat of battle" as opposed to the senior guys who
> >> direct the battle.
> >>     The extra pay includes combat pay, hazardous duty pay, overseas
> pay,
> >> family separation pay, jump pay (if you are on jump status), flight
> pay,
> >> submarine pay etc.  This is not all inclusive.  Some of these special
> >> pays
> >> have only been recently increased.  I have known a few soldiers who
> >> would go
> >> to the AOR just to collect the extra pay, but mostly it is a perk for
> >> those
> >> in their regular rotation.  Many volunteer to go sooner than later to
> >> "get
> >> it over with" and collect the extra pay to boot.  I've known a couple
> of
> >> guys who went early so they could get a better assignment earlier and
> >> wouldn't have to go again for two years or so.  It depends upon the
> >> person.  None of these guys are trying to get rich in the
> service.  They
> >> have so diminished the benefits and retirement that in a discussion
> with
> >> several officers we observed that at one time, you could survey a
> >> group of
> >> soldiers in a room and 60% to 70% would indicate they are in for a
> >> career.  Now (this conversation was two y
> >> ears a
> >> go but holds up to-day) you would be lucky if 30% held the same
> >> position.  It has more to do with the economy, the erosion of
> >> benefits and
> >> health care that they don't see it as worth it.  I think Bill hit it
> >> partially right too that sergeants will get out and triple their pay
> >> as a
> >> contractor doing what they did on active duty.  That is part of the
> >> economy
> >> element.
> >>
> >> Philip
> >>
> >> -------------- Original message --------------
> >> From: DCLewis1 at aol.com
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Philip,
> >> >
> >> > $150/mo doesn't seem like a lot of $ to you or I, but to a young
> >> Corporal
> >> > it's a lot of beer.
> >> >
> >> > I personally know an Army wife who is quite happy to have her husband
> >> posted
> >> > to Afghanistan because of the additional $. Seems crazy to me (will
> >> this
> >> > marriage last?), but it's true.
> >> >
> >> > Dave
> >> > __________________________________________________
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