[Rhodes22-list] Religion: - Is Christianity inherently hostile?

Thu Oct 26 11:41:36 EDT 2006

You want to see blue laws, you should go to Germany.  When I was stationed
there in the early '90s the German stores all closed at 6pm and were closed
on Sundays.  Once a month they were open until 8pm on a Thursday.  Very
difficult to get to a store and do shopping.  Thank god the PX wasn't
restricted by this!

Hank

On 10/26/06, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> On the lighter side, when I moved to Little Rock, Arkansas in 1978 they
> still had 'blue laws'.  I was at a Target store on a Sunday and one of the
> items in the cart was thread.  The clerk removed the item and said, "you
> can't buy thread on Sunday."
>
> "What?"
>
> "You can't buy thread on Sunday, you can't buy tools or things that can be
> used for work."
>
> "OK, can I buy condoms?"
>
> "Yes."
>
> "Good, mine broke and I need to sew together."
>
> Thank Allah, the law was changed and now you can even get a
> scotch-and-water
> in LIT on Sunday.  Trust me!
>
> Brad
>
>
> On 10/26/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >
> > Robert,
> >
> > Please.
> >
> > This piece casts little light.
> >
> > Is Christianity inherently hostile?
> >
> > Christian groups passed a constitutional amendment in this country
> > outlawing alcohol.
> >
> > Some pharmacies refuse to sell birth control pills.
> >
> > Let's not talk religion.
> >
> > You want to talk politics?
> >
> > The cops can confiscate a taxi that contains marijuana.  Taxi drivers
> > can refuse to take passengers who are transporting marijuana.  Is that
> OK?
> >
> > Is it OK to refuse to take 17 year old passengers with alcohol?
> >
> > How about drunk 18 year olds?
> >
> > How about a guy carrying a gun?
> >
> > Why can mothers take milk on airplanes but not anyone else?
> >
> > That's politics.
> >
> > But suggesting that somebody else's religion is inherently
> > hostile...mixing religion with politics...boy has that led to a lot of
> > trouble.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert Skinner wrote:
> > > Brad,
> > >
> > > Very interesting.  As I was contemplating the day, dozing off
> > > last night, I was wondering whether the core tenets of Islam
> > > required continual war on other beliefs, and/or whether sharia
> > > (sp?) law was directly derived fron the quoran, or the result
> > > of "interpretation".
> > >
> > > This piece casts a litle light.  I need more.  Any experts here?
> > >
> > > /Robert
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Brad Haslett wrote:
> > >
> > >> OK, folks, we may disagree on Iraq and most other issues but this
> > should be
> > >> a no-brainer.  This article is from Slim's newspaper published this
> > >> morning.  Despite Slim's bias against the author, she's been all over
> > this
> > >> story. How can we stem the growth of Islamic radicalism outside our
> > country
> > >> if we don't have the balls to stop it domestically? This is PC  gone
> > wild.
> > >> As Paul Harvey would say, "and now for the rest of the story."
> > >>
> > >> Brad
> > >>
> > >> --------------------
> > >>
> > >>  [image: StarTribune.com] <http://www.startribune.com/> KERSTEN102606
> > >>
> > >> Last update: October 25, 2006 -- 9:50 PM
> > >> Airport taxi flap about alcohol has deeper significance The airport
> > taxi
> > >> controversy may go deeper than the quandary over whether to
> accommodate
> > >> Somali Muslim cabdrivers who refuse to carry passengers carrying
> > alcohol.
> > >> Behind the scenes, a struggle for power and religious authority is
> > >> apparently playing out.
> > >>
> > >> *Katherine Kersten,* Star Tribune
> > >> The taxi controversy at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International
> Airport
> > has
> > >> caught the nation's attention. But the dispute may go deeper than the
> > >> quandary over whether to accommodate Somali Muslim cabdrivers who
> > refuse to
> > >> carry passengers carrying alcohol. Behind the scenes, a struggle for
> > power
> > >> and religious authority is apparently playing out.
> > >>
> > >> At the Starbucks coffee shop in Minneapolis' Cedar-Riverside
> > neighborhood, a
> > >> favorite Somali gathering spot, holidaymakers celebrating Eid, the
> end
> > of
> > >> Ramadan, filled the tables on Monday. Several taxis were parked
> > outside.
> > >>
> > >> An animated circle of Somalis gathered when the question of the
> airport
> > >> controversy was raised.
> > >>
> > >> "I was surprised and shocked when I heard it was an issue at the
> > airport,"
> > >> said Faysal Omar. "Back in Somalia, there was never any problem with
> > taking
> > >> alcohol in a taxi."
> > >>
> > >> Jama Dirie said, "If a driver doesn't pick up everyone, he should get
> > his
> > >> license canceled and get kicked out of the airport."
> > >>
> > >> Two of the Somalis present defended the idea that Islam prohibits
> > cabdrivers
> > >> from transporting passengers with alcohol. An argument erupted. The
> > >> consensus seemed to be that only a small number of Somalis object to
> > >> transporting alcohol. It's a matter of personal opinion, not Islamic
> > law,
> > >> several men said.
> > >>
> > >> Ahmed Samatar, a nationally recognized expert on Somali society at
> > >> Macalester College, confirmed that view. "There is a general Islamic
> > >> prohibition against drinking," he said, "but carrying alcohol for
> > people in
> > >> commercial enterprise has never been forbidden. There is no basis in
> > Somali
> > >> cultural practice or legal tradition for that.
> > >>
> > >> "This is one of those new concoctions."It is being foisted on the
> > Somali
> > >> community by an inside or outside group," he added. "I do not know
> > who."
> > >>
> > >> But many Somali drivers at the airport are refusing to carry
> passengers
> > with
> > >> alcohol. When I asked Patrick Hogan, Metropolitan Airports Commission
> > >> spokesman, for his explanation, he forwarded a fatwa, or religious
> > edict,
> > >> that the MAC had received. The fatwa proclaims that "Islamic
> > jurisprudence"
> > >> prohibits taxi drivers from carrying passengers with alcohol,
> "because
> > it
> > >> involves cooperating in sin according to the Islam."
> > >>
> > >> The fatwa, dated June 6, 2006, was issued by the "fatwa department"
> of
> > the
> > >> Muslim American Society, Minnesota chapter, and signed by society
> > officials.
> > >>
> > >> The society is mediating the conflict between the cab drivers and the
> > MAC.
> > >> That seems odd, since the society itself clearly has a stake in the
> > >> controversy's outcome.
> > >>
> > >> How did the MAC connect with the society? "The Minnesota Department
> of
> > Human
> > >> Rights recommended them to us to help us figure out how to handle
> this
> > >> problem," Hogan said.
> > >>
> > >> Omar Jamal, director of the Somali Justice Advocacy Center, thinks he
> > knows
> > >> why the society is promoting a "no-alcohol-carry" agenda with no
> basis
> > in
> > >> Somali culture. "MAS is an Arab group; we Somalis are African, not
> > Arabs,"
> > >> he said. "MAS wants to polarize the world, create two camps. I think
> > they
> > >> are trying to hijack the Somali community for their Middle East
> agenda.
> > They
> > >> look for issues they can capitalize on, like religion, to rally the
> > >> community around. The majority of Somalis oppose this, but they are
> > >> vulnerable because of their social and economic situation."
> > >>
> > >> *The society*
> > >>
> > >> What is the Muslim American Society? In September 2004 the Chicago
> > Tribune
> > >> published an investigative article. The society was incorporated in
> > 1993,
> > >> the paper reported, and is the name under which the U.S. branch of
> the
> > >> Muslim Brotherhood operates.
> > >>
> > >> The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in Egypt in 1928 by Hassan
> al-Banna.
> > The
> > >> Tribune described the Brotherhood as "the world's most influential
> > Islamic
> > >> fundamentalist group."Because of its hard-line beliefs, the U.S.
> > Brotherhood
> > >> has been an increasingly divisive force within Islam in America,
> > fueling the
> > >> often bitter struggle between moderate and conservative Muslims," the
> > paper
> > >> reported.
> > >>
> > >> The international Muslim Brotherhood "preaches that religion and
> > politics
> > >> cannot be separated and that governments eventually should be
> Islamic,"
> > >> according to the Tribune. U.S. members emphasize that they follow
> > American
> > >> laws, but want people here to convert to Islam so that one day a
> > majority
> > >> will support a society governed by Islamic law.
> > >>
> > >> How are society members to respond when questioned about a Muslim
> > >> Brotherhood connection? The Tribune cites an undated internal memo:
> "If
> > >> asked, 'Are you the Muslim Brothers?' leaders should respond that
> they
> > are
> > >> an independent group called the Muslim American Society."
> > >>
> > >> The April 2001 issue of the society's magazine, the American Muslim,
> > lists
> > >> "essential books" for understanding Islam. They include works by
> Hassan
> > >> al-Banna, the Brotherhood's founder, and Sayyid Qutb, one of its most
> > >> violent theoreticians.
> > >>
> > >> Here's the flavor of these authors' writings:
> > >>
> > >> "Always cherish the intention of jihad and the desire for martyrdom
> in
> > the
> > >> Way of Allah, and actually prepare yourself for that," wrote
> Al-Banna.
> > >>
> > >> Osama bin Laden relied heavily on Qutb in formulating his world view,
> > >> according to the 9/11 Commission. Qutb had "an enormous loathing of
> > Western
> > >> society and history," states the commission's report. He taught that
> > "no
> > >> middle ground exists" in the "struggle between God and Satan." All
> > Muslims
> > >> must therefore take up arms in this fight, he said.
> > >>
> > >> Hassan Mohamud is vice president of the society's Minnesota chapter.
> > The
> > >> society is independent and has no connection with the Muslim
> > Brotherhood, he
> > >> said.
> > >>
> > >> The Minnesota chapter's website, however, states that the
> > organization's
> > >> roots lie in the Islamic revival movement that "brought the call of
> > Islam to
> > >> Muslim masses ... to reestablish Islam as a total way of life."
> > >>
> > >> Mohamud says the society has three goals: to present the "real image"
> > of
> > >> Islam in American society, to preserve the identity of Muslims here
> and
> > to
> > >> "make that identity fit without having clashes between cultures and
> > laws."
> > >>
> > >> He emphasizes, however, that Muslims must follow shari'a, or Islamic
> > law, in
> > >> every aspect of their lives. "There are two conflicting systems here
> --
> > two
> > >> ways of life -- that want to live in the same place and respect each
> > other,"
> > >> he says. The society aims to facilitate conciliation between the two.
> > >>
> > >> Mohamud adds that Americans need to learn about Islamic law because
> the
> > >> Muslim population here is growing. That's why the proposed two-tier
> > system
> > >> for airport cabdrivers is important, he says. It could become a
> > national
> > >> model for accommodating Islam in areas ranging from housing to
> > contractual
> > >> arrangements to the workplace.
> > >>
> > >> MAC officials will hold another meeting today about the airport
> > controversy,
> > >> and Mohamud says he will try to revive the two-tiered pilot project
> for
> > >> taxis. Whatever the meeting's outcome, we now have reason to believe
> > that
> > >> the issue is only a prologue to a larger drama playing out in
> Minnesota
> > and
> > >> the United States.
> > >>
> > >> Katherine Kersten . kkersten at startribune.com
> > >>
> > >> (c)2006 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.
> > >>
> > > __________________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > __________________________________________________
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