[Rhodes22-list] Religion: - Is Christianity inherently hostile?

[Brad Haslett]

Hank,

Been there, done that!  One of my lovely ex-wives was half German and her
mother lived in Bad Tolz. What really pissed my ex-mother-in-law off was she
had to contribute taxes to one church or the other.  She lives in Sarasota
now and contributes to neither.

Brad


On 10/26/06, Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You want to see blue laws, you should go to Germany.  When I was stationed
> there in the early '90s the German stores all closed at 6pm and were
> closed
> on Sundays.  Once a month they were open until 8pm on a Thursday.  Very
> difficult to get to a store and do shopping.  Thank god the PX wasn't
> restricted by this!
>
> Hank
>
> On 10/26/06, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > On the lighter side, when I moved to Little Rock, Arkansas in 1978 they
> > still had 'blue laws'.  I was at a Target store on a Sunday and one of
> the
> > items in the cart was thread.  The clerk removed the item and said, "you
> > can't buy thread on Sunday."
> >
> > "What?"
> >
> > "You can't buy thread on Sunday, you can't buy tools or things that can
> be
> > used for work."
> >
> > "OK, can I buy condoms?"
> >
> > "Yes."
> >
> > "Good, mine broke and I need to sew together."
> >
> > Thank Allah, the law was changed and now you can even get a
> > scotch-and-water
> > in LIT on Sunday.  Trust me!
> >
> > Brad
> >
> >
> > On 10/26/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Robert,
> > >
> > > Please.
> > >
> > > This piece casts little light.
> > >
> > > Is Christianity inherently hostile?
> > >
> > > Christian groups passed a constitutional amendment in this country
> > > outlawing alcohol.
> > >
> > > Some pharmacies refuse to sell birth control pills.
> > >
> > > Let's not talk religion.
> > >
> > > You want to talk politics?
> > >
> > > The cops can confiscate a taxi that contains marijuana.  Taxi drivers
> > > can refuse to take passengers who are transporting marijuana.  Is that
> > OK?
> > >
> > > Is it OK to refuse to take 17 year old passengers with alcohol?
> > >
> > > How about drunk 18 year olds?
> > >
> > > How about a guy carrying a gun?
> > >
> > > Why can mothers take milk on airplanes but not anyone else?
> > >
> > > That's politics.
> > >
> > > But suggesting that somebody else's religion is inherently
> > > hostile...mixing religion with politics...boy has that led to a lot of
> > > trouble.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Robert Skinner wrote:
> > > > Brad,
> > > >
> > > > Very interesting.  As I was contemplating the day, dozing off
> > > > last night, I was wondering whether the core tenets of Islam
> > > > required continual war on other beliefs, and/or whether sharia
> > > > (sp?) law was directly derived fron the quoran, or the result
> > > > of "interpretation".
> > > >
> > > > This piece casts a litle light.  I need more.  Any experts here?
> > > >
> > > > /Robert
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Brad Haslett wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> OK, folks, we may disagree on Iraq and most other issues but this
> > > should be
> > > >> a no-brainer.  This article is from Slim's newspaper published this
> > > >> morning.  Despite Slim's bias against the author, she's been all
> over
> > > this
> > > >> story. How can we stem the growth of Islamic radicalism outside our
> > > country
> > > >> if we don't have the balls to stop it domestically? This is
> PC  gone
> > > wild.
> > > >> As Paul Harvey would say, "and now for the rest of the story."
> > > >>
> > > >> Brad
> > > >>
> > > >> --------------------
> > > >>
> > > >>  [image: StarTribune.com] <http://www.startribune.com/>
> KERSTEN102606
> > > >>
> > > >> Last update: October 25, 2006 -- 9:50 PM
> > > >> Airport taxi flap about alcohol has deeper significance The airport
> > > taxi
> > > >> controversy may go deeper than the quandary over whether to
> > accommodate
> > > >> Somali Muslim cabdrivers who refuse to carry passengers carrying
> > > alcohol.
> > > >> Behind the scenes, a struggle for power and religious authority is
> > > >> apparently playing out.
> > > >>
> > > >> *Katherine Kersten,* Star Tribune
> > > >> The taxi controversy at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International
> > Airport
> > > has
> > > >> caught the nation's attention. But the dispute may go deeper than
> the
> > > >> quandary over whether to accommodate Somali Muslim cabdrivers who
> > > refuse to
> > > >> carry passengers carrying alcohol. Behind the scenes, a struggle
> for
> > > power
> > > >> and religious authority is apparently playing out.
> > > >>
> > > >> At the Starbucks coffee shop in Minneapolis' Cedar-Riverside
> > > neighborhood, a
> > > >> favorite Somali gathering spot, holidaymakers celebrating Eid, the
> > end
> > > of
> > > >> Ramadan, filled the tables on Monday. Several taxis were parked
> > > outside.
> > > >>
> > > >> An animated circle of Somalis gathered when the question of the
> > airport
> > > >> controversy was raised.
> > > >>
> > > >> "I was surprised and shocked when I heard it was an issue at the
> > > airport,"
> > > >> said Faysal Omar. "Back in Somalia, there was never any problem
> with
> > > taking
> > > >> alcohol in a taxi."
> > > >>
> > > >> Jama Dirie said, "If a driver doesn't pick up everyone, he should
> get
> > > his
> > > >> license canceled and get kicked out of the airport."
> > > >>
> > > >> Two of the Somalis present defended the idea that Islam prohibits
> > > cabdrivers
> > > >> from transporting passengers with alcohol. An argument erupted. The
> > > >> consensus seemed to be that only a small number of Somalis object
> to
> > > >> transporting alcohol. It's a matter of personal opinion, not
> Islamic
> > > law,
> > > >> several men said.
> > > >>
> > > >> Ahmed Samatar, a nationally recognized expert on Somali society at
> > > >> Macalester College, confirmed that view. "There is a general
> Islamic
> > > >> prohibition against drinking," he said, "but carrying alcohol for
> > > people in
> > > >> commercial enterprise has never been forbidden. There is no basis
> in
> > > Somali
> > > >> cultural practice or legal tradition for that.
> > > >>
> > > >> "This is one of those new concoctions."It is being foisted on the
> > > Somali
> > > >> community by an inside or outside group," he added. "I do not know
> > > who."
> > > >>
> > > >> But many Somali drivers at the airport are refusing to carry
> > passengers
> > > with
> > > >> alcohol. When I asked Patrick Hogan, Metropolitan Airports
> Commission
> > > >> spokesman, for his explanation, he forwarded a fatwa, or religious
> > > edict,
> > > >> that the MAC had received. The fatwa proclaims that "Islamic
> > > jurisprudence"
> > > >> prohibits taxi drivers from carrying passengers with alcohol,
> > "because
> > > it
> > > >> involves cooperating in sin according to the Islam."
> > > >>
> > > >> The fatwa, dated June 6, 2006, was issued by the "fatwa department"
> > of
> > > the
> > > >> Muslim American Society, Minnesota chapter, and signed by society
> > > officials.
> > > >>
> > > >> The society is mediating the conflict between the cab drivers and
> the
> > > MAC.
> > > >> That seems odd, since the society itself clearly has a stake in the
> > > >> controversy's outcome.
> > > >>
> > > >> How did the MAC connect with the society? "The Minnesota Department
> > of
> > > Human
> > > >> Rights recommended them to us to help us figure out how to handle
> > this
> > > >> problem," Hogan said.
> > > >>
> > > >> Omar Jamal, director of the Somali Justice Advocacy Center, thinks
> he
> > > knows
> > > >> why the society is promoting a "no-alcohol-carry" agenda with no
> > basis
> > > in
> > > >> Somali culture. "MAS is an Arab group; we Somalis are African, not
> > > Arabs,"
> > > >> he said. "MAS wants to polarize the world, create two camps. I
> think
> > > they
> > > >> are trying to hijack the Somali community for their Middle East
> > agenda.
> > > They
> > > >> look for issues they can capitalize on, like religion, to rally the
> > > >> community around. The majority of Somalis oppose this, but they are
> > > >> vulnerable because of their social and economic situation."
> > > >>
> > > >> *The society*
> > > >>
> > > >> What is the Muslim American Society? In September 2004 the Chicago
> > > Tribune
> > > >> published an investigative article. The society was incorporated in
> > > 1993,
> > > >> the paper reported, and is the name under which the U.S. branch of
> > the
> > > >> Muslim Brotherhood operates.
> > > >>
> > > >> The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in Egypt in 1928 by Hassan
> > al-Banna.
> > > The
> > > >> Tribune described the Brotherhood as "the world's most influential
> > > Islamic
> > > >> fundamentalist group."Because of its hard-line beliefs, the U.S.
> > > Brotherhood
> > > >> has been an increasingly divisive force within Islam in America,
> > > fueling the
> > > >> often bitter struggle between moderate and conservative Muslims,"
> the
> > > paper
> > > >> reported.
> > > >>
> > > >> The international Muslim Brotherhood "preaches that religion and
> > > politics
> > > >> cannot be separated and that governments eventually should be
> > Islamic,"
> > > >> according to the Tribune. U.S. members emphasize that they follow
> > > American
> > > >> laws, but want people here to convert to Islam so that one day a
> > > majority
> > > >> will support a society governed by Islamic law.
> > > >>
> > > >> How are society members to respond when questioned about a Muslim
> > > >> Brotherhood connection? The Tribune cites an undated internal memo:
> > "If
> > > >> asked, 'Are you the Muslim Brothers?' leaders should respond that
> > they
> > > are
> > > >> an independent group called the Muslim American Society."
> > > >>
> > > >> The April 2001 issue of the society's magazine, the American
> Muslim,
> > > lists
> > > >> "essential books" for understanding Islam. They include works by
> > Hassan
> > > >> al-Banna, the Brotherhood's founder, and Sayyid Qutb, one of its
> most
> > > >> violent theoreticians.
> > > >>
> > > >> Here's the flavor of these authors' writings:
> > > >>
> > > >> "Always cherish the intention of jihad and the desire for martyrdom
> > in
> > > the
> > > >> Way of Allah, and actually prepare yourself for that," wrote
> > Al-Banna.
> > > >>
> > > >> Osama bin Laden relied heavily on Qutb in formulating his world
> view,
> > > >> according to the 9/11 Commission. Qutb had "an enormous loathing of
> > > Western
> > > >> society and history," states the commission's report. He taught
> that
> > > "no
> > > >> middle ground exists" in the "struggle between God and Satan." All
> > > Muslims
> > > >> must therefore take up arms in this fight, he said.
> > > >>
> > > >> Hassan Mohamud is vice president of the society's Minnesota
> chapter.
> > > The
> > > >> society is independent and has no connection with the Muslim
> > > Brotherhood, he
> > > >> said.
> > > >>
> > > >> The Minnesota chapter's website, however, states that the
> > > organization's
> > > >> roots lie in the Islamic revival movement that "brought the call of
> > > Islam to
> > > >> Muslim masses ... to reestablish Islam as a total way of life."
> > > >>
> > > >> Mohamud says the society has three goals: to present the "real
> image"
> > > of
> > > >> Islam in American society, to preserve the identity of Muslims here
> > and
> > > to
> > > >> "make that identity fit without having clashes between cultures and
> > > laws."
> > > >>
> > > >> He emphasizes, however, that Muslims must follow shari'a, or
> Islamic
> > > law, in
> > > >> every aspect of their lives. "There are two conflicting systems
> here
> > --
> > > two
> > > >> ways of life -- that want to live in the same place and respect
> each
> > > other,"
> > > >> he says. The society aims to facilitate conciliation between the
> two.
> > > >>
> > > >> Mohamud adds that Americans need to learn about Islamic law because
> > the
> > > >> Muslim population here is growing. That's why the proposed two-tier
> > > system
> > > >> for airport cabdrivers is important, he says. It could become a
> > > national
> > > >> model for accommodating Islam in areas ranging from housing to
> > > contractual
> > > >> arrangements to the workplace.
> > > >>
> > > >> MAC officials will hold another meeting today about the airport
> > > controversy,
> > > >> and Mohamud says he will try to revive the two-tiered pilot project
> > for
> > > >> taxis. Whatever the meeting's outcome, we now have reason to
> believe
> > > that
> > > >> the issue is only a prologue to a larger drama playing out in
> > Minnesota
> > > and
> > > >> the United States.
> > > >>
> > > >> Katherine Kersten . kkersten at startribune.com
> > > >>
> > > >> (c)2006 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.
> > > >>
> > > > __________________________________________________
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> > > >
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