[Rhodes22-list] Political:Off to Iraq

[TN Rhodey]

Herb, I'll drink to that!

Wally (sitting on the sidelines)


>From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Political:Off to Iraq
>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:13:53 -0500
>
>I'm beginning to be more and more convinced that there are those on both 
>sides of the fence (left and right) that truly don't understand the concept 
>that someone may be totally informed, in control of all their mental 
>facilities, intelligent, rational, and STILL make a different choice than 
>they.
>
>Some folks think there HAS to be a motivation for "different thinking", 
>whether it be "they're too young, stupid, poor, bribed, selfish, ignorant, 
>insane".
>
>
>Herb Parsons
>
>S/V O'Jure
>1976 O'Day 25
>Lake Grapevine, N TX
>
>S/V Reve de Papa
>1971 Coronado 35
>Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
>
> >>> hnw555 at gmail.com 10/25/2006 11:33:16 am >>>
>Bill, you do have that wrong.  People are signing up because they believe 
>in
>this cause, whether or not you want to believe it.  The largest enlistment
>bonuses are, I think, somewhere in the $30,000 range and they go to the
>hardest jobs to fill, Military Intelligence, Translators, etc.  Grunts get
>little or no bonuses as they are much easier to fill.  As Phillip said,
>bonuses only go to troops in the 1st or 2nd re-enlistment.  In my 20 years,
>I never received a bonus, as I was not in an "in demand" career field.
>
>Hank
>
>On 10/25/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hank,
> >
> > Philip said people who complain about casualties can't explain
> > reenlistment rates.  I said that signing bonuses explain reenlistment
> > rates.
> >
> > I infer from your note that Philip is an officer and received a "signing
> > bonus" or some other military euphemism for "huge amount of money paid
> > to induce people to risk their lives".  It is my understanding that some
> > of these payments are in excess of $100,000.  Do I have that wrong?
> >
> > Bill Effros
> >
> > Hank wrote:
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > Once again, you spoke with thinking or checking your facts.  Officers
> > > do not
> > > re-enlist.  Re-enlistment bonuses are only paid to enlisted.  Some
> > > Officers
> > > in certain specialties such as Doctors and Dentists get yearly bonuses
> > > but
> > > this is because of their extensive training and desparity with pay in
> > the
> > > civilian sector.
> > >
> > > Hank
> > >
> > > On 10/25/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Brad,
> > >>
> > >> As Philip well knows, the Army is paying huge reenlistment bonuses.  
>In
> > >> fact, I believe Philip was one of the recipients.
> > >>
> > >> I have no problem with that, but let's not confuse a mercenary army
> > with
> > >> a patriotic army.
> > >>
> > >> Bill Effros
> > >>
> > >> 3drecon at comcast.net wrote:
> > >> > Brad,
> > >> >     The point Ron made about the soldier casualties is a common
> > >> complaint.  What they cannot explain is why the reenlistment and
> > >> extension
> > >> rate is higher for those who have gone to the "sandbox" than in the
> > >> general
> > >> population.  Everyone, (I say again) Everyone, in the military to-day
> > >> is a
> > >> volunteer.  No one, at this point in time, can say they didn't expect
> > >> to go
> > >> to war (that might have been an argument in 2001 but not now, an
> > >> argument
> > >> for which I have little sympathy.  The military is not here for 
>social
> > >> benefit but for fighting).
> > >> >
> > >> > LTC Philip Esteban
> > >> >
> > >> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > >> > From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> Common leftest screed (thank-you Bill) , I've read your post twice
> > >> Ron
> > >> and
> > >> >> still can't find any new ideas.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> As to North Korea, I believe it was the "negotiations" and
> > >> appeasement
> > >> of
> > >> >> the previous administration that got us into this mess. How should
> > we
> > >> >> respond? We have roughly 30,000 of our own troops in harms way on
> > the
> > >> >> border (been there since the 50's) plus several million South
> > >> Koreans.
> > >> The
> > >> >> North can lob 5000 conventional shells at once and we have to 
>figure
> > >> out
> > >> >> which one contains the nuke. Yes indeed, what a mess. Our best 
>hope
> > >> there
> > >> >> is help from China. More troops on the ground would only mean more
> > >> troops
> > >> >> killed in the first day. We should think twice about allowing a
> > >> similar
> > >> >> situation with another rouge nation developing again, hence our
> > >> invasion of
> > >> >> Iraq. After all, regime change was the official policy of the
> > Clinton
> > >> >> administration. Let me repeat this one more time - the
> > >> authorization to
> > >> >> invade Iraq was approved by the Congress. Of course some will say
> > for
> > >> >> political reasons they were duped, but they had access to the same
> > >> >> intel - politics as usual.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> How many Iraqi citizens were killed by Saddam? A hell of a lot 
>more
> > >> than
> > >> >> by our invasion. How many more will be killed if we leave. John
> > Kerry
> > >> >> estimated less than 300,000 in Vietnam. He was only off by 3
> > million.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> What do you think we should do Ron, pull out and declare victory?
> > >> Well,
> > >> if
> > >> >> so, why quit at half-measures. Let's disband the TSA and eliminate
> > >> the
> > >> long
> > >> >> line at the airports. After all, we have no enemies from the crazy
> > >> fringe
> > >> >> of the Islamic world, right? Let's kiss and make up with the
> > >> French so
> > >> >> they'll come to our side and bravely fight, just as they are in
> > their
> > >> own
> > >> >> country right now. Ah yes, those wonderful allies we pissed off.
> > >> Please
> > >> >> remind me who we offended that weren't trading goods with Saddam.
> > >> Germany,
> > >> >> nope! Russia, nope! China, silly question! I forget, help me here,
> > >> who
> > >> >> are these allies again?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> This war is ugly, they all are. We went for the right reasons.
> > >> What we
> > >> are
> > >> >> seeing now is not unlike Tet in Vietnam. We won that remember, and
> > >> then
> > >> >> gave the enemy time to regroup at the peace table. Indeed, history
> > >> can
> > >> be a
> > >> >> bitch.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Brad
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On 10/24/06, Ronald Lipton wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >>> New idea? Better ideas?
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> - Did I think invading Iraq was a good idea? NO
> > >> >>> Were there weapons of mass distruction - NO
> > >> >>> Were there real terrorist bases - NO
> > >> >>> Did we give any thought to the internal politics? NO
> > >> >>> Did we alienate our allies by our arrogance? YES.
> > >> >>> Have we crippled our volunteer forces by throwing
> > >> >>> away lives in a worse than useless situation?
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> How many soldiers have been killed? (~2900)
> > >> >>> Maimed - many more
> > >> >>> How many Iraqi civilians?
> > >> >>> How many of their families blame the US and will take up 
>terrorism?
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> We have been weakened to the point that we can't
> > >> >>> effectively respond to real threats from N. Korea.
> > >> >>> God what a mess.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> I don't see any real thought given to actions which gravely
> > >> >>> affect the US and the rest of the world.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> I don't want to see this country continue to be run by a group
> > >> >>> of idiots and ideologues who seem to be completely disconnected
> > >> >>> from reality. If soldiers are put in harms way there should be a
> > >> >>> good reason. I see nothing but negative consequences.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Do I have better Ideas? It's like asking someone pushed out
> > >> >>> of a window - how to get back up there?
> > >> >>> Is there any path out of this mess - you tell me, but I believe
> > that
> > >> >>> this is the most disastrous administration in the history of this
> > >> >>> country. Nero probably did a worse job for Rome.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Ron
> > >> >>> On Oct 23, 2006, at 10:42 PM, Brad Haslett wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>> Bob,
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Thanks for the post. There are letters like this quite often on
> > the
> > >> >>>> milblogs I frequent. Also, I have a co-worker with a Marine son 
>in
> > >> >>>> Iraq who
> > >> >>>> forwards updates from time to time. This may be a SHOCK to the
> > >> >>>> lefties in
> > >> >>>> the world but our military is all volunteer and for the most 
>part
> > >> very
> > >> >>>> motivated. The reaction you got on the list was predictable and
> > not
> > >> >>>> unlike
> > >> >>>> the reactions from the usual suspects anytime something that
> > >> doesn't
> > >> >>>> fit
> > >> >>>> their perceptions gets published. They get the New York times
> > >> version
> > >> >>>> of
> > >> >>>> reality everyday from someone who's never been out of the Green
> > >> Zone
> > >> >>>> and
> > >> >>>> believe that, but gawd forbid they listen to the wisdom of a
> > common
> > >> >>>> foot-soldier. No one likes this war, or any war for that matter,
> > >> but
> > >> >>>> this
> > >> >>>> kid in the letter pretty much nailed it. We fight them there now
> > or
> > >> >>>> here
> > >> >>>> later. Did you see on the news this evening that youths are
> > burning
> > >> >>>> buses
> > >> >>>> in France? Nope? What kind of youths? Of course the French can't
> > >> say
> > >> >>>> it. Radical Islamists! Keep your head in the sand folks. This
> > ain't
> > >> >>>> goin'
> > >> >>>> away anytime soon. We can argue about the methods or the chosen
> > >> >>>> battlefield
> > >> >>>> but the war declared by them a long time ago. What was our first
> > >> >>>> reaction? Wear sweaters!
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Here's what really pisses me off. Where are the new ideas? All I
> > >> >>>> hear this
> > >> >>>> election cycle is let's tuck tail and run, then hope for the
> > >> best. Is
> > >> >>>> this
> > >> >>>> a strategy? Criticism and disagreement is one thing - attempting
> > >> >>>> dialogue
> > >> >>>> with, or worse, ignoring enemies who want to cut your head off 
>is
> > >> >>>> stupid. Oh
> > >> >>>> I forget, cutting off heads is only for old time's sake, until
> > they
> > >> >>>> can get
> > >> >>>> their WMD programs running again.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Brad
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> On 10/23/06, Bob Keller wrote:
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> Got this from my brother and wanted to pass it on.
> > >> >>>>> Bob
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> This is from a co-worker at HP who's son left for Iraq today.
> > This
> > >> >>>>> comes
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>> to
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> me directly from his Dad. I will be getting periodic updates 
>from
> > >> him
> > >> >>>>> and
> > >> >>>>> will forward. I will take the last name off so as to protect 
>his
> > >> >>>>> privacy,
> > >> >>>>> but forward on, because these brave troops need our continued
> > >> support
> > >> >>>>> and
> > >> >>>>> prayers.
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> Bill
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> Everyone,
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> Well after months and months of yakking about it the day is
> > >> finally
> > >> >>>>> here?well almost here, just have to go to sleep tonight (we'll
> > see
> > >> >>>>> about
> > >> >>>>> that) and it'll be here tomorrow. I'm sure pretty much everyone
> > is
> > >> >>>>> wondering what I'm thinking right now, what are my feelings,
> > >> and all
> > >> >>>>> that
> > >> >>>>> other stuff?I guess I'm going to be super-cool and spill it for
> > >> you,
> > >> >>>>> just
> > >> >>>>> because I'm that awesome. :c)
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> I'm ready to get going, and I have been ready since my last
> > >> visit to
> > >> >>>>> Colorado?sitting around here this last week or so is just 
>awful,
> > >> >>>>> waiting
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>> is
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> never fun?gives you too much time to think, and a lot of the 
>time
> > >> >>>>> thinking
> > >> >>>>> gets you in trouble. I am ready to wage this war against
> > >> >>>>> militant-Islam,
> > >> >>>>> because it is something that absolutely has to be done. Some
> > >> look at
> > >> >>>>> Iraq
> > >> >>>>> and just see Saddam and WMD and that MY BOSS was wrong to go in
> > >> there
> > >> >>>>> (btw
> > >> >>>>> we found enough WMD to kill everyone in Baghdad, but I guess 
>you
> > >> >>>>> didn't
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>> hear
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> or read about that anywhere, ask me if you really want
> > details?oh,
> > >> and
> > >> >>>>> Saddam really was a horrible asshole?pardon my language to both
> > my
> > >> >>>>> grandmothers?), but it is well past that point?Iraq is the line
> > in
> > >> the
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>> sand
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> between civilized nations and Islamic fascism, because whether
> > you
> > >> >>>>> want to
> > >> >>>>> believe it or not, there are a large group of people out there
> > who
> > >> >>>>> want
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>> you
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> and everyone else dead unless you convert to their way of
> > >> thinking.
> > >> >>>>> The
> > >> >>>>> great thing about Iraq is that all these idiots have decided it
> > >> is a
> > >> >>>>> lot
> > >> >>>>> easier to fight us there than it is to come to the United
> > >> States and
> > >> >>>>> fight
> > >> >>>>> you?which I am fine with, because I'm going to be so horribly
> > well
> > >> >>>>> armed
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>> and
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> armored that I welcome their best shot at destroying everything 
>I
> > >> have
> > >> >>>>> dedicated my life to defend.
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> While I'm gone I encourage all of you to live it up for me?I
> > can't
> > >> do
> > >> >>>>> it,
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>> so
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> you all should do it double for me?take those extra few days
> > >> off of
> > >> >>>>> work,
> > >> >>>>> take that trip, try for that double on your dirt bike, fish
> > >> that run
> > >> >>>>> one
> > >> >>>>> more time, let your kid stay up that extra 15 minutes, stay in
> > the
> > >> >>>>> duck-blind 15 more minutes after you think the birds have 
>stopped
> > >> >>>>> flying,
> > >> >>>>> drink that extra drink?I think you get the idea?everyone has 
>that
> > >> >>>>> area in
> > >> >>>>> their life where they can indulge, so I encourage you all to do
> > it
> > >> >>>>> for me.
> > >> >>>>> The only thing that I am worried about going into Iraq is
> > >> letting my
> > >> >>>>> guys
> > >> >>>>> down, letting all of you down, and letting my country down; and 
>I
> > >> can
> > >> >>>>> tell
> > >> >>>>> you with all of my heart that it is NOT in my intention to do
> > >> any of
> > >> >>>>> those
> > >> >>>>> things. I promise you all that I will be careful, but at the 
>same
> > >> >>>>> time I
> > >> >>>>> promise that I will kick the ever-living CRAP out of anyone 
>that
> > >> >>>>> presents
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>> a
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> threat to me or you...they WILL die, and they'll do it before I
> > >> do.
> > >> >>>>> This
> > >> >>>>> war is the most important war that has been fought since WW2,
> > >> easily,
> > >> >>>>> if
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>> not
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> more so. The things that we do tomorrow and in the next five
> > years
> > >> >>>>> will
> > >> >>>>> shape the world as we know it for centuries to come?if we leave
> > >> Iraq
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>> before
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> we win the fight then all of the western world is in danger, 
>just
> > >> >>>>> remember
> > >> >>>>> that?and I will elaborate on that fact in the future. So happy
> > >> >>>>> trails to
> > >> >>>>> all of you, and I will frequently be in touch, just say a 'lil
> > >> prayer
> > >> >>>>> for
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>> me
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> and I'll do alright.
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> God Bless and Love,
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> Matt
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> Matthew
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> 1st Cavalry Division, Ft. Hood TX
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> 
>_________________________________________________________________
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>today!
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>> 
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> > >> >>>> us&source=hmtagline
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> __________________________________________________
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> > >> >>>>>
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