[Rhodes22-list] Political:Off to Iraq

[TN Rhodey]

Bill,

You are way off base here. That is not the way things work.

Wally


>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Political:Off to Iraq
>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:48:35 -0400
>
>Hank,
>
>Philip said people who complain about casualties can't explain reenlistment 
>rates.  I said that signing bonuses explain reenlistment rates.
>
>I infer from your note that Philip is an officer and received a "signing 
>bonus" or some other military euphemism for "huge amount of money paid to 
>induce people to risk their lives".  It is my understanding that some of 
>these payments are in excess of $100,000.  Do I have that wrong?
>
>Bill Effros
>
>Hank wrote:
>>Bill,
>>
>>Once again, you spoke with thinking or checking your facts.  Officers do 
>>not
>>re-enlist.  Re-enlistment bonuses are only paid to enlisted.  Some 
>>Officers
>>in certain specialties such as Doctors and Dentists get yearly bonuses but
>>this is because of their extensive training and desparity with pay in the
>>civilian sector.
>>
>>Hank
>>
>>On 10/25/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Brad,
>>>
>>>As Philip well knows, the Army is paying huge reenlistment bonuses.  In
>>>fact, I believe Philip was one of the recipients.
>>>
>>>I have no problem with that, but let's not confuse a mercenary army with
>>>a patriotic army.
>>>
>>>Bill Effros
>>>
>>>3drecon at comcast.net wrote:
>>> > Brad,
>>> >     The point Ron made about the soldier casualties is a common
>>>complaint.  What they cannot explain is why the reenlistment and 
>>>extension
>>>rate is higher for those who have gone to the "sandbox" than in the 
>>>general
>>>population.  Everyone, (I say again) Everyone, in the military to-day is 
>>>a
>>>volunteer.  No one, at this point in time, can say they didn't expect to 
>>>go
>>>to war (that might have been an argument in 2001 but not now, an argument
>>>for which I have little sympathy.  The military is not here for social
>>>benefit but for fighting).
>>> >
>>> > LTC Philip Esteban
>>> >
>>> > -------------- Original message --------------
>>> > From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Common leftest screed (thank-you Bill) , I've read your post twice 
>>>Ron
>>>and
>>> >> still can't find any new ideas.
>>> >>
>>> >> As to North Korea, I believe it was the "negotiations" and 
>>>appeasement
>>>of
>>> >> the previous administration that got us into this mess. How should we
>>> >> respond? We have roughly 30,000 of our own troops in harms way on the
>>> >> border (been there since the 50's) plus several million South 
>>>Koreans.
>>>The
>>> >> North can lob 5000 conventional shells at once and we have to figure
>>>out
>>> >> which one contains the nuke. Yes indeed, what a mess. Our best hope
>>>there
>>> >> is help from China. More troops on the ground would only mean more
>>>troops
>>> >> killed in the first day. We should think twice about allowing a 
>>>similar
>>> >> situation with another rouge nation developing again, hence our
>>>invasion of
>>> >> Iraq. After all, regime change was the official policy of the Clinton
>>> >> administration. Let me repeat this one more time - the authorization 
>>>to
>>> >> invade Iraq was approved by the Congress. Of course some will say for
>>> >> political reasons they were duped, but they had access to the same
>>> >> intel - politics as usual.
>>> >>
>>> >> How many Iraqi citizens were killed by Saddam? A hell of a lot more
>>>than
>>> >> by our invasion. How many more will be killed if we leave. John Kerry
>>> >> estimated less than 300,000 in Vietnam. He was only off by 3 million.
>>> >>
>>> >> What do you think we should do Ron, pull out and declare victory? 
>>>Well,
>>>if
>>> >> so, why quit at half-measures. Let's disband the TSA and eliminate 
>>>the
>>>long
>>> >> line at the airports. After all, we have no enemies from the crazy
>>>fringe
>>> >> of the Islamic world, right? Let's kiss and make up with the French 
>>>so
>>> >> they'll come to our side and bravely fight, just as they are in their
>>>own
>>> >> country right now. Ah yes, those wonderful allies we pissed off. 
>>>Please
>>> >> remind me who we offended that weren't trading goods with Saddam.
>>>Germany,
>>> >> nope! Russia, nope! China, silly question! I forget, help me here, 
>>>who
>>> >> are these allies again?
>>> >>
>>> >> This war is ugly, they all are. We went for the right reasons. What 
>>>we
>>>are
>>> >> seeing now is not unlike Tet in Vietnam. We won that remember, and 
>>>then
>>> >> gave the enemy time to regroup at the peace table. Indeed, history 
>>>can
>>>be a
>>> >> bitch.
>>> >>
>>> >> Brad
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 10/24/06, Ronald Lipton wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> New idea? Better ideas?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> - Did I think invading Iraq was a good idea? NO
>>> >>> Were there weapons of mass distruction - NO
>>> >>> Were there real terrorist bases - NO
>>> >>> Did we give any thought to the internal politics? NO
>>> >>> Did we alienate our allies by our arrogance? YES.
>>> >>> Have we crippled our volunteer forces by throwing
>>> >>> away lives in a worse than useless situation?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> How many soldiers have been killed? (~2900)
>>> >>> Maimed - many more
>>> >>> How many Iraqi civilians?
>>> >>> How many of their families blame the US and will take up terrorism?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> We have been weakened to the point that we can't
>>> >>> effectively respond to real threats from N. Korea.
>>> >>> God what a mess.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I don't see any real thought given to actions which gravely
>>> >>> affect the US and the rest of the world.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I don't want to see this country continue to be run by a group
>>> >>> of idiots and ideologues who seem to be completely disconnected
>>> >>> from reality. If soldiers are put in harms way there should be a
>>> >>> good reason. I see nothing but negative consequences.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Do I have better Ideas? It's like asking someone pushed out
>>> >>> of a window - how to get back up there?
>>> >>> Is there any path out of this mess - you tell me, but I believe that
>>> >>> this is the most disastrous administration in the history of this
>>> >>> country. Nero probably did a worse job for Rome.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Ron
>>> >>> On Oct 23, 2006, at 10:42 PM, Brad Haslett wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Bob,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Thanks for the post. There are letters like this quite often on the
>>> >>>> milblogs I frequent. Also, I have a co-worker with a Marine son in
>>> >>>> Iraq who
>>> >>>> forwards updates from time to time. This may be a SHOCK to the
>>> >>>> lefties in
>>> >>>> the world but our military is all volunteer and for the most part
>>>very
>>> >>>> motivated. The reaction you got on the list was predictable and not
>>> >>>> unlike
>>> >>>> the reactions from the usual suspects anytime something that 
>>>doesn't
>>> >>>> fit
>>> >>>> their perceptions gets published. They get the New York times 
>>>version
>>> >>>> of
>>> >>>> reality everyday from someone who's never been out of the Green 
>>>Zone
>>> >>>> and
>>> >>>> believe that, but gawd forbid they listen to the wisdom of a common
>>> >>>> foot-soldier. No one likes this war, or any war for that matter, 
>>>but
>>> >>>> this
>>> >>>> kid in the letter pretty much nailed it. We fight them there now or
>>> >>>> here
>>> >>>> later. Did you see on the news this evening that youths are burning
>>> >>>> buses
>>> >>>> in France? Nope? What kind of youths? Of course the French can't 
>>>say
>>> >>>> it. Radical Islamists! Keep your head in the sand folks. This ain't
>>> >>>> goin'
>>> >>>> away anytime soon. We can argue about the methods or the chosen
>>> >>>> battlefield
>>> >>>> but the war declared by them a long time ago. What was our first
>>> >>>> reaction? Wear sweaters!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Here's what really pisses me off. Where are the new ideas? All I
>>> >>>> hear this
>>> >>>> election cycle is let's tuck tail and run, then hope for the best. 
>>>Is
>>> >>>> this
>>> >>>> a strategy? Criticism and disagreement is one thing - attempting
>>> >>>> dialogue
>>> >>>> with, or worse, ignoring enemies who want to cut your head off is
>>> >>>> stupid. Oh
>>> >>>> I forget, cutting off heads is only for old time's sake, until they
>>> >>>> can get
>>> >>>> their WMD programs running again.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Brad
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On 10/23/06, Bob Keller wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Got this from my brother and wanted to pass it on.
>>> >>>>> Bob
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> This is from a co-worker at HP who's son left for Iraq today. This
>>> >>>>> comes
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> to
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> me directly from his Dad. I will be getting periodic updates from
>>>him
>>> >>>>> and
>>> >>>>> will forward. I will take the last name off so as to protect his
>>> >>>>> privacy,
>>> >>>>> but forward on, because these brave troops need our continued
>>>support
>>> >>>>> and
>>> >>>>> prayers.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Bill
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Everyone,
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Well after months and months of yakking about it the day is 
>>>finally
>>> >>>>> here?well almost here, just have to go to sleep tonight (we'll see
>>> >>>>> about
>>> >>>>> that) and it'll be here tomorrow. I'm sure pretty much everyone is
>>> >>>>> wondering what I'm thinking right now, what are my feelings, and 
>>>all
>>> >>>>> that
>>> >>>>> other stuff?I guess I'm going to be super-cool and spill it for 
>>>you,
>>> >>>>> just
>>> >>>>> because I'm that awesome. :c)
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I'm ready to get going, and I have been ready since my last visit 
>>>to
>>> >>>>> Colorado?sitting around here this last week or so is just awful,
>>> >>>>> waiting
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> is
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> never fun?gives you too much time to think, and a lot of the time
>>> >>>>> thinking
>>> >>>>> gets you in trouble. I am ready to wage this war against
>>> >>>>> militant-Islam,
>>> >>>>> because it is something that absolutely has to be done. Some look 
>>>at
>>> >>>>> Iraq
>>> >>>>> and just see Saddam and WMD and that MY BOSS was wrong to go in
>>>there
>>> >>>>> (btw
>>> >>>>> we found enough WMD to kill everyone in Baghdad, but I guess you
>>> >>>>> didn't
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> hear
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> or read about that anywhere, ask me if you really want details?oh,
>>>and
>>> >>>>> Saddam really was a horrible asshole?pardon my language to both my
>>> >>>>> grandmothers?), but it is well past that point?Iraq is the line in
>>>the
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> sand
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> between civilized nations and Islamic fascism, because whether you
>>> >>>>> want to
>>> >>>>> believe it or not, there are a large group of people out there who
>>> >>>>> want
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> you
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> and everyone else dead unless you convert to their way of 
>>>thinking.
>>> >>>>> The
>>> >>>>> great thing about Iraq is that all these idiots have decided it is 
>>>a
>>> >>>>> lot
>>> >>>>> easier to fight us there than it is to come to the United States 
>>>and
>>> >>>>> fight
>>> >>>>> you?which I am fine with, because I'm going to be so horribly well
>>> >>>>> armed
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> and
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> armored that I welcome their best shot at destroying everything I
>>>have
>>> >>>>> dedicated my life to defend.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> While I'm gone I encourage all of you to live it up for me?I can't
>>>do
>>> >>>>> it,
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> so
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> you all should do it double for me?take those extra few days off 
>>>of
>>> >>>>> work,
>>> >>>>> take that trip, try for that double on your dirt bike, fish that 
>>>run
>>> >>>>> one
>>> >>>>> more time, let your kid stay up that extra 15 minutes, stay in the
>>> >>>>> duck-blind 15 more minutes after you think the birds have stopped
>>> >>>>> flying,
>>> >>>>> drink that extra drink?I think you get the idea?everyone has that
>>> >>>>> area in
>>> >>>>> their life where they can indulge, so I encourage you all to do it
>>> >>>>> for me.
>>> >>>>> The only thing that I am worried about going into Iraq is letting 
>>>my
>>> >>>>> guys
>>> >>>>> down, letting all of you down, and letting my country down; and I
>>>can
>>> >>>>> tell
>>> >>>>> you with all of my heart that it is NOT in my intention to do any 
>>>of
>>> >>>>> those
>>> >>>>> things. I promise you all that I will be careful, but at the same
>>> >>>>> time I
>>> >>>>> promise that I will kick the ever-living CRAP out of anyone that
>>> >>>>> presents
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> a
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> threat to me or you...they WILL die, and they'll do it before I 
>>>do.
>>> >>>>> This
>>> >>>>> war is the most important war that has been fought since WW2,
>>>easily,
>>> >>>>> if
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> not
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> more so. The things that we do tomorrow and in the next five years
>>> >>>>> will
>>> >>>>> shape the world as we know it for centuries to come?if we leave 
>>>Iraq
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> before
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> we win the fight then all of the western world is in danger, just
>>> >>>>> remember
>>> >>>>> that?and I will elaborate on that fact in the future. So happy
>>> >>>>> trails to
>>> >>>>> all of you, and I will frequently be in touch, just say a 'lil
>>>prayer
>>> >>>>> for
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> me
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> and I'll do alright.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> God Bless and Love,
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Matt
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Matthew
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> 1st Cavalry Division, Ft. Hood TX
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________
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>>> >>>>>
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>>> >>>>
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