[Rhodes22-list] anchor off the stern (LIS)

[Brad Haslett]

Hank,

Actually, the kibbutz communities in Israel are the closest thing Socialism
can claim as a success.  Even they are recognizing reality and changing.
Adam Smith's 'invisible hand' may be invisible, but that doesn't mean it
isn't real.

Brad




On 10/31/06, Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Oy Vey!
>
> On 10/31/06, Ronald Lipton <rlipton at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > No, they spend their time kvetching.
> >
> > Ron
> > On Oct 30, 2006, at 8:24 PM, Hank wrote:
> >
> > > Sooooo...
> > >
> > > They do a lit of kibbitzing on the kibbutz?
> > >
> > > Hank
> > >
> > > On 10/30/06, Ronald Lipton <rlipton at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hank,
> > >>
> > >>     Since we have been discussing grammer and usage; it's kibbitz,
> > >> kibbutz
> > >> is an Israeli collective community. (Should I have used a semicolon?
> > >> is the comma correct?  Perhaps I should have used a dash.)
> > >>
> > >> Ron
> > >> On Oct 30, 2006, at 7:12 PM, Hank wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Hey Mike,
> > >> >
> > >> > Not trying to kibbutz, but don't you have the bit about anchor
> > >> scope
> > >> > backwards?  Usually, you want somewhere around a 7:1 scope, that
> > >> > is, 7 ft of
> > >> > anchor line for each foot of depth.  Therefore, the deeper the
> > >> > water, the
> > >> > more line needed.
> > >> >
> > >> > Hank
> > >> >
> > >> > On 10/30/06, Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Joe,
> > >> >>
> > >> >> We sail out of Kings Park, NY.  Depending on the wind, the
> > >> crew, the
> > >> >> Admiral, etc. We sail on the "North Shore" somewhere from Port
> > >> >> Washington
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> Mount Sinai, usually.  There is much to do and see in the areas
> > >> >> along Long
> > >> >> Island and the wind is usually pretty good, although it is
> > >> >> stronger on the
> > >> >> South Shore.  The benefit of sailing the LIS is that it is less
> > >> >> than 20
> > >> >> miles to CT, a good destination for both daysails and overnights
> > >> >> (try the
> > >> >> Thimble Islands near Norwalk, CT).
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I am sorry that you spent a night at the dock.  Unless the wave
> > >> >> action is
> > >> >> less than 1 foot (no wind either) the boat will move against the
> > >> >> dock and
> > >> >> lines all night.  Remember, the tide difference on the north side
> > >> >> of LI
> > >> >> are
> > >> >> 7-8 feet!  This does not make for a restful night.  At least
> > >> the wind
> > >> >> would
> > >> >> have kept the bugs away.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> When we are at our mooring at the Nissequogue River, we are quite
> > >> >> firmly
> > >> >> attached to a single 200 lb mushroom anchor, although we do use
> > >> >> dual bow
> > >> >> pennants for safety.  This permits us to point into the wind
> > >> (and the
> > >> >> current.)  When mooring in the vicinity of other craft, it is
> > >> >> particularly
> > >> >> important to observe the anchor systems in use so that your
> > >> boat will
> > >> >> respond to changes in wind and current in a similar manner to
> > >> avoid
> > >> >> bumping
> > >> >> and damage.  Do not anchor too close to dissimilar boats since
> > >> >> some sail
> > >> >> and
> > >> >> motor crafts respond to changes in wind and current direction at
> > >> >> different
> > >> >> rates.  This was a difficult lesson for a previous harbormaster
> > >> >> who tried
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> locate moorings too close together.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> When away from our mooring, we use a stern anchor in conjunction
> > >> >> with the
> > >> >> bow anchor to limit movement.  Sometimes this is necessary when
> > >> >> anchored
> > >> >> in
> > >> >> close quarters with other craft such as off a beach when
> > >> >> swimming.  Since
> > >> >> the water is shallow, one must let out quite a bit of line to
> > >> >> maintain
> > >> >> rules
> > >> >> of scope.  If a single anchor was used, the resulting movement
> > >> >> could be
> > >> >> dangerous.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The other times that I employ two anchors is to maintain the
> > >> >> position of
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> boat with respect to waves and wind.  One of our favorite beaches
> > >> >> has a
> > >> >> jetty and sandbar configuration that results in strong wave action
> > >> >> that
> > >> >> may
> > >> >> not correspond to the wind.  In order to keep the boat pointed
> > >> >> into the
> > >> >> waves and not necessarily the wind, I use a stern anchor.  This
> > >> >> makes it
> > >> >> much easier to discharge and reboard passengers using the swim
> > >> >> ladder,
> > >> >> minimizing injuries since the boat is not pitching and rolling.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Mike
> > >> >> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> > >> >>
> > >> >> From: "Joseph Hadzima" <josef508 at yahoo.com>
> > >> >> Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 3:09 PM
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> thanks for the update Mike:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> And which parts of LIS do you sail?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> We did a little trip this Summer (Noank CT to Newport RI
> > >> >> with quick swing by Orient Pt NY).  We did a bearboat
> > >> >> charter of an O'Day 28.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> We used only a single anchor, or rented a mooring.  First
> > >> >> night tied to the dock (owner set us up) & I thought we
> > >> >> were gonna split the hull (not literally - but didn't like
> > >> >> it)!  Deployed all the fenders and a cushion on the dock
> > >> >> side, and was up all night checking for damage.  Strong
> > >> >> winds and current pushing us into the dock all night.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Same conditions another night (plus rain), but at the
> > >> >> mooring, and we had a very nice rest.  Head to wind all
> > >> >> night, checked several times and noticed we did swing a
> > >> >> bit, but then so did everyone else at the other moorings.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I'd be concerned that two anchors would mess with the
> > >> >> natural order of the boat to point to windward, and
> > >> >> increase the probability to drag an anchor, or just have
> > >> >> the boat rock side to side.  I guess you're saying that
> > >> >> this isn't the case with you?
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> joe/hadz.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> --- "Michael D. Weisner" <mweisner at ebsmed.com> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > Bill E, Art, Hadz, et al,
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > We carry both a bow and a stern anchor.  In LIS, it is
> > >> >> > necessary to use a
> > >> >> > bow/stern anchor technique (or a forked anchor) to limit
> > >> >> > movement due to the
> > >> >> > number and proximity of other craft.  I also favor a b/s
> > >> >> > form to minimize
> > >> >> > the effect of the wind and wave action on those staying
> > >> >> > aboard.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Although I favor setting the bow anchor initially, we
> > >> >> > sail in a fairly
> > >> >> > congested region of the world, and it has been very nice
> > >> >> > to be able to
> > >> >> > deploy the stern anchor alone and quickly while working
> > >> >> > to quickly furl and
> > >> >> > drop sails in an emergency situation.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I maintain two fluke anchors, one on the bow pulpit and
> > >> >> > the second bungeed
> > >> >> > to the stern rail.  The bow anchor is cleated to the
> > >> >> > forward mooring cleats
> > >> >> > on the deck.  This requires crew on deck to deploy and
> > >> >> > recover.  The bow
> > >> >> > anchor line is stored in the forward locker without
> > >> >> > problem or tangling -
> > >> >> > storage requires careful technique.  The stern anchor
> > >> >> > line is cleated to one
> > >> >> > of the side mooring cleats accessible from the cockpit.
> > >> >> > The stern line is
> > >> >> > in a spackle bucket in the laz, also carefully stored for
> > >> >> > tangle-free
> > >> >> > deployment.  I have always been taught to take the time
> > >> >> > to properly store
> > >> >> > any line since it may need to be deployed in a hurry.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Mike
> > >> >> > s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> __________________________________________________
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> > >> >>
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