[Rhodes22-list] Speaking of politicians.

[Brad Haslett]

Bill,

I'm really to busy to fool with this right now but some of your
misstatements shouldn't go unchallenged.  You are wrong, "they", at least in
the modern sense of the Presidency, didn't "all" fire Federal Attorneys at
once.  Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 41, all replaced Federal Attorneys
as their appointments expired, and fired a handful midterm for various
reasons, but none fired all, as in every single one like Clinton did.  No
one paid any attention to what Janet Reno did at the time because it was
legal - Federal Attorneys serve at the discretion of the President and, oh,
shock of shocks!, they are political appointees.  Does any of this matter
now?  No, Clinton is not the President, but his wife IS running for the job
and for her to express shock that Bush should replace less than 10% of the
Federal Attorneys is the height of hypocrisy. But by all means, let's
investigate fully!  As long as Congress is tied down in hearings, mentally
masturbating over nothing, they'll probably be to busy to cause other harm.

If you want to go looking for unprecentented events, when in the history of
the US has a Speaker of the House made an unauthorized trip to visit foreign
dignitaries, specifically against the wishes of the State Department and
Whitehouse?  This is a dangerous slope we're sliding down folks.  Go ahead
and weaken the Executive branch because you don't like the current
President.  He'll be gone in two years but the damage being done here will
come back and bite us in the ass.  The next time we have a crisis, say China
shoots down another airplane, who should they negotiate with - cherry pick
the three branches of government and choose wichever one will give them the
best deal?

Brad

On 4/4/07, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
> Wally,
>
> They all fired Federal Attorneys...at the beginning of their terms...to
> get their own guys in.  Fair enough.  But Bush then fired his own guys
> after getting re-elected and claimed the White House had nothing to do
> with the decisions because the fired attorneys were fired for
> incompetence.
>
> Turned out it wasn't even borderline true.  Bush ruined the reputations
> of Republican Federal Attorneys.  Gonzales blamed his deputy.  etc.
>
> The people who wanted to impeach a President over a blow job have become
> the new arbiters of tempests and teapots; mountains and mole hills.
>
> The American Public is doing a little fact checking, and they're no
> longer buying the press releases from the White House.
>
> Rummy,
>
> Nobody believes that stuff anymore, they're just trying to rattle cages
> for old time's sake.
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
>
> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > Brad,
> >
> > What?.....This editorial really doesn't address the coment in my
> email.....I
> > will do some checking but I think you are wrong about this starting with
> > Clinton. I don't think anyone is saying that Clinto did not fire AGs. I
> just
> > don't think it started with the Clinton's. You post doesn't shed any
> light
> > in either direction. - Wally
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> >> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Speaking of politicians.
> >> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:08:47 -0500
> >>
> >> Wally,
> >>
> >> This is a 'tempest in a teapot', something, anything, to run
> interference
> >> during the last two years of a lame duck Presidency.  Here is an
> editorial
> >>
> > >from the WSJ on the subject.
> >
> >> Brad
> >>
> >> ---------------
> >>
> >> *The Hubbell Standard*
> >> Hillary Clinton knows all about sacking U.S. Attorneys.
> >>
> >> *Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:01 a.m.*
> >>
> >> Congressional Democrats are in full cry over the news this week that
> the
> >> Administration's decision to fire eight U.S. Attorneys originated
> >> from--gasp--the White House. Senator Hillary Clinton joined the fun
> >> yesterday, blaming President Bush for "the politicization of our
> >> prosecutorial system." Oh, my.
> >>
> >> As it happens, Mrs. Clinton is just the Senator to walk point on this
> issue
> >> of dismissing U.S. attorneys because she has direct personal
> experience. In
> >> any Congressional probe of the matter, we'd suggest she call herself as
> the
> >> first witness--and bring along Webster Hubbell as her chief counsel.
> >>
> >> As everyone once knew but has tried to forget, Mr. Hubbell was a former
> >> partner of Mrs. Clinton at the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock who later
> went
> >> to jail for mail fraud and tax evasion. He was also Bill and Hillary
> >> Clinton's choice as Associate Attorney General in the Justice
> Department
> >> when Janet Reno, his nominal superior, simultaneously fired all 93 U.S.
> >> Attorneys in March 1993. Ms. Reno--or Mr. Hubbell--gave them 10 days to
> >> move
> >> out of their offices.
> >>
> >> At the time, President Clinton presented the move as something
> perfectly
> >> ordinary: "All those people are routinely replaced," he told reporters,
> >> "and
> >> I have not done anything differently." In fact, the dismissals were
> >> unprecedented: Previous Presidents, including Ronald Reagan and Jimmy
> >> Carter, had both retained holdovers from the previous Administration
> and
> >> only replaced them gradually as their tenures expired. This allowed
> >> continuity of leadership within the U.S. Attorney offices during the
> >> transition.
> >>
> >> Equally extraordinary were the politics at play in the firings. At the
> >> time,
> >> Jay Stephens, then U.S. Attorney in the District of Columbia, was
> >> investigating then Ways and Means Chairman Dan Rostenkowski, and was
> >> "within
> >> 30 days" of making a decision on an indictment. Mr. Rostenkowski, who
> was
> >> shepherding the Clinton's economic program through Congress, eventually
> >> went
> >> to jail on mail fraud charges and was later pardoned by Mr. Clinton.
> >>
> >> Also at the time, allegations concerning some of the Clintons'
> Whitewater
> >> dealings were coming to a head. By dismissing all 93 U.S. Attorneys at
> >> once,
> >> the Clintons conveniently cleared the decks to appoint "Friend of Bill"
> >> Paula Casey as the U.S. Attorney for Little Rock. Ms. Casey never did
> bring
> >> any big Whitewater indictments, and she rejected information from
> another
> >> FOB, David Hale, on the business practices of the Arkansas elite
> including
> >> Mr. Clinton. When it comes to "politicizing" Justice, in short, the
> Bush
> >> White House is full of amateurs compared to the Clintons.
> >>
> >>  And it may be this very amateurism that explains how the current
> >> Administration has managed to turn this routine issue of replacing
> >> Presidential appointees into a political fiasco. There was nothing
> wrong
> >> with replacing the eight Attorneys, all of whom serve at the
> President's
> >> pleasure. Prosecutors deserve supervision like any other executive
> branch
> >> appointees.
> >>
> >> The supposed scandal this week is that Mr. Bush had been informed last
> fall
> >> that some U.S. Attorneys had been less than vigorous in pursuing
> >> voter-fraud
> >> cases and that the President had made the point to Attorney General
> Alberto
> >> Gonzales. Voter fraud strikes at the heart of democratic institutions,
> and
> >> it was entirely appropriate for Mr. Bush--or any President--to insist
> that
> >> his appointees act energetically against it.
> >>
> >> Take sacked U.S. Attorney John McKay from Washington state. In 2004,
> the
> >> Governor's race was decided in favor of Democrat Christine Gregoire by
> 129
> >> votes on a third recount. As the Seattle Post-Intelligencer and other
> media
> >> outlets reported, some of the "voters" were deceased, others were
> >> registered
> >> in storage-rental facilities, and still others were convicted felons.
> More
> >> than 100 ballots were "discovered" in a Seattle warehouse. None of this
> >> constitutes proof that the election was stolen. But it should have been
> >> enough to prompt Mr. McKay, a Democrat, to investigate, something he
> >> declined to do, apparently on grounds that he had better things to do.
> >>
> >> In New Mexico, another state in which recent elections have been
> decided by
> >> razor thin margins, U.S. Attorney David Iglesias did establish a voter
> >> fraud
> >> task force in 2004. But it lasted all of 10 weeks before closing its
> doors,
> >> despite evidence of irregularities by the likes of the Association of
> >> Community Organizations for Reform Now, or Acorn. As our John Fund
> reported
> >> at the time, Acorn's director Matt Henderson refused to answer
> questions in
> >> court about whether his group had illegally made copies of voter
> >> registration cards in the run-up to the 2004 election.
> >>
> >>  As for some of the other fired Attorneys, at least one of their
> >> dismissals
> >> seemed to owe to differences with the Administration about the death
> >> penalty, another to questions about the Attorney's managerial skills.
> Not
> >> surprisingly, the dismissed Attorneys are insisting their dismissals
> were
> >> unfair, and perhaps in some cases they were. It would not be the first
> time
> >> in history that a dismissed employee did not take kindly to his firing,
> nor
> >> would it be the first in which an employer sacked the wrong person. No
> >> question, the Justice Department and White House have botched the
> handling
> >> of this issue from start to finish. But what we don't have here is any
> >> serious evidence that the Administration has acted improperly or to
> protect
> >> some of its friends. If Democrats want to understand what a real abuse
> of
> >> power looks like, they can always ask the junior Senator from New York.
> >>
> >> On 4/4/07, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Brad,
> >>>
> >>> Of course the AGs serve at the President's descrection however I think
> >>>
> >> you
> >>
> >>> might be wrong about the firings/replacement starting with Clinton. I
> >>> thought the AG firings started at least as far back as Reagan and was
> >>>
> >> then
> >>
> >>> followed by Bush and Clinton. I thought W's issues have more to do
> with
> >>> the
> >>> timing....if he would of done this in the first year or so it would
> have
> >>> merely followed precedent ...by waiting he left the door open to
> >>> criticism.
> >>>
> >>> Wally
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> >>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Speaking of politicians.
> >>>> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:26:04 -0600
> >>>>
> >>>> Wally,
> >>>>
> >>>> AG's serve at the President's discretion.  Clinton wholesale
> replacing
> >>>>
> >>> ALL
> >>>
> >>>> of them at once was a first. The press at the time barely mentioned
> it.
> >>>> Bush
> >>>> replaced 8 out of almost 100.  Big deal.  This is a huge non-story
> that
> >>>> ranks right up there with the one about whats-her-name dying, you
> know
> >>>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>> one, that blonde chick with the big hooters.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've been tied down with airplane hangar issues and taxes but plan to
> >>>>
> >> get
> >>
> >>>> on
> >>>> the lake soon.  I haven't bothered to look and see if the front that
> >>>>
> >>> passed
> >>>
> >>>> here last night has made it past you, but it is chilly this morning.
> >>>>
> >> At
> >>
> >>>> least there's some wind.
> >>>>
> >>>> Brad
> >>>>
> >>>> On 4/4/07, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> The sailing here has been great the last few days!!!  I have been
> >>>>>
> >>> trying
> >>>
> >>>>> NOT
> >>>>> to follow the AG firings but doesn't every President do the same
> >>>>>
> >> thing
> >>
> >>>>> Clinton did? I thought this was pretty standard when a new pres came
> >>>>> in.....this may be a matter of bad timing? Wally
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Speaking of politicians.
> >>>>>> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:29:24 -0600
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Rummy,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Speaking of amnesia, last Sunday we had George Stephanopoulos on
> >>>>>>
> >> his
> >>
> >>>> ABC
> >>>>
> >>>>>> news show discussing the firing of eight Attorney Generals, a
> >>>>>>
> >>> non-event
> >>>
> >>>>> if
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> there ever was one, and little Georgie keeps a straight face
> >>>>>>
> >> through
> >>
> >>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>>> whole thing.  What a fine piece of acting.  Did George share his
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> experience
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> as spokesperson for the Clinton administration explaining the
> >>>>>>
> >> firing
> >>
> >>> of
> >>>
> >>>>>> all,
> >>>>>> every single friggin' AG in the US, including the one in Little
> >>>>>>
> >> Rock
> >>
> >>>>>> investigating Whitewater?  No, he continued on, sure that most of
> >>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>> country is too stupid to know or care. He was right. Want to know
> >>>>>>
> >> how
> >>
> >>>>> much
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> press coverage that got when it happened?  About 20 seconds on one
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> network.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Fair and balanced?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 4/4/07, R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Breaking News
> >>>>>>> Scientists Study Memory Loss Among Politicians
> >>>>>>> Near-amnesia Reaching Epidemic Proportions, Experts  Say
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> An "unprecedented epidemic of memory loss" is
> >>>>>>>
> >>> afflicting  America's
> >>>
> >>>>>>> politicians, making it virtually impossible for them to
> >>>>>>>
> >> remember
> >>
> >>>> key
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> phone
> >>>>>>> conversations, meetings, and memos, a spokesman  for the world's
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> leading
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> brain
> >>>>>>> scientists said today.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The  spokesman, Dr. Hiroshi Kyosuke of the University of Tokyo,
> >>>>>>>
> >> is
> >>
> >>>> one
> >>>>
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> over four hundred eminent brain scientists who have gathered in
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> Oslo,
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> Norway
> >>>>>>> this week for a high-level research conference to probe  the
> >>>>>>>
> >>> recent
> >>>
> >>>>>>> phenomenon
> >>>>>>> of memory loss that has plagued the nation's  politicians.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "The question at hand is this: why are  politicians so good at
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> remembering
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> contributors' names and phone  numbers but so bad at remembering
> >>>>>>> everything else?
> >>>>>>> " Dr. Kyosuke  said.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Over the course of the conference, brain scientists  have
> >>>>>>>
> >>> presented
> >>>
> >>>>>>> research
> >>>>>>> papers on a variety of subjects related to  memory loss, such as
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> former
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> New
> >>>>>>> York mayor Rudolph Giuliani's  inability to remember a briefing
> >>>>>>>
> >> he
> >>
> >>>>>>> received
> >>>>>>> about former police  commissioner Bernard Kerik's possible ties
> >>>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>>>> organized
> >>>>>>> crime.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "That seems like the sort of thing that a normal human
> >>>>>>>
> >>> brain  would
> >>>
> >>>>> have
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> no
> >>>>>>> difficulty remembering," Dr. Kyosuke said. "What we  are
> >>>>>>>
> >> learning
> >>
> >>> at
> >>>
> >>>>>> this
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> conference is that when it comes to  politicians' brains, we
> >>>>>>>
> >> have
> >>
> >>> so
> >>>
> >>>>>> much
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> more to
> >>>>>>> learn."
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On  Monday, a full day of the conference was devoted to a paper
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> entitled,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "
> >>>>>>> The Neuroscience of Scooter Libby," followed by a keynote
> >>>>>>>
> >> address
> >>
> >>>>> given
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> by
> >>>>>>> Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> While  many attendees considered Mr. Gonzales' speech a
> >>>>>>>
> >> highpoint
> >>
> >>> of
> >>>
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> conference, the Attorney General offered a different assessment:
> >>>>>>>
> >>> "I
> >>>
> >>>>>> have
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> no
> >>>>>>> recollection of it."
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Elsewhere, President Bush said  he would devote the remainder of
> >>>>>>>
> >>> his
> >>>
> >>>>>> term
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>> fighting global  warming, adding, "April  Fools!"
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ************************************** See what's free at
> >>>>>>> http://www.aol.com.
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
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> >>>>>>
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> >>>>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
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