[Rhodes22-list] Battteries
Bill Effros
bill at effros.com
Sat Apr 14 16:52:37 EDT 2007
Wally,
You're just picking fights without reading.
Golf cart batteries make sense for golf carts. They are a different
size and voltage than batteries used for other purposes. Banding them
together and putting them into boats is ridiculous.
Bill Effros
TN Rhodey wrote:
> Bill, So you know better than the entire Golf industry? Maybe green fees
> could be lowered if they knew what you knew.....I got to believe the golf
> course industry has not been duped. I suspect they pay the extra bucks
> because there is a difference. In any case... I said in my orignal post for
> my use they are not worth the cost. Wally
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
>> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:30:05 -0300
>>
>> Wally,
>>
>> They do make 12 volt Golf Cart Batteries.
>>
>> Golf Cart Batteries are designed similarly to "Deep Cycle Marine
>> Batteries".
>>
>> Nobody uses the batteries on sailboats the same way golf carts use their
>> batteries--nor do we recharge them the same way for fear of blowing out
>> the electrical circuits on our boats at the same time.
>>
>> Trojan, 6 volt golf cart, and other high end batteries are not worth the
>> extra cost to anybody with a Rhodes-22.
>>
>> I read the same stuff you read. It doesn't cost that much to test out
>> the theories, and I did so for years. I have been swapping out
>> batteries of all different types and costs, and I have the electrical
>> monitoring equipment on board to compare one battery set with another.
>>
>> The best batteries I have ever had in the boat are the Kirkland
>> batteries that Stan originally installed. They were better
>> electrically, and obviously they cost less than the West Marine, AGM, or
>> any other brand or type I tried.
>>
>> 1 12 volt is more than enough.
>>
>> 2 is complete redundancy.
>>
>> I have 2 -- at $50 each--so for $100 I have 0 electrical anxiety for 6
>> years at a time. Cheap at the price.
>>
>> I never have to recharge my batteries using shore power. I burn less
>> than 10 gallons of gas a year. My batteries stay on board, summer and
>> winter, hooked up and ready to go.
>>
>> My batteries are hooked up in parallel with no switch. If one starts to
>> fail, the other brings it back up. A dead short on one will not short
>> out the other. (yes, I tried)
>>
>> Most of these world cruisers have more dollars than sense. They don't
>> know what they're talking about 9/10s of the time.
>>
>> Golf cart batteries on boats are just plain silly. The monstrously
>> expensive boat batteries are not inherently more reliable than
>> "ordinary" batteries.
>>
>> When R-22 newbies ask about batteries, the best advise to give them is
>> to take what Stan provides. 2 is more than you'll ever need.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>>
>>
>> TN Rhodey wrote:
>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> Your post has several errors. I don't know enough about battery design
>>>
>> to
>>
>>> explain in detail. Golf Carts usage runs down the battery almost every
>>>
>> day.
>>
>>> They are designed to run down to low levels and then quickly recharged.
>>>
>> I am
>>
>>> not saying they are lighter or cheaper. I am saying they can be run down
>>>
>> and
>>
>>> recharged (more times) and still live a long life. As you point out they
>>>
>> are
>>
>>> expensive. There is a reason Golf Courses buy these expensive batteries
>>>
>> and
>>
>>> it is not just size. Most 12-volt batteries are not built to the same
>>> specifications as 6-volt Golf Cart batteries. There are other types of 6
>>> volts batteries (motorcycle, old VW) that are dirt-cheap. There is a
>>>
>> reason.
>>
>>> The durability is why world cruisers like them. They may not be able to
>>>
>> run
>>
>>> to Walmart when the battery dies. You ask why don't they make 12-volt
>>>
>> Golf
>>
>>> Cart batteries? If they used the same technology they would be too big
>>>
>> and
>>
>>> heavy for Golf Cart. Many cruisers will tell you that Trojan Batteries
>>>
>> (6
>>
>>> or12 volt) are the absolute best. They have a price tag quite a bit
>>> different then Walmart. They are hundreds per and they are not your
>>>
>> average
>>
>>> battery. My buddy has a solar powered cabin and he swears by them.
>>>
>>> For my use the Walmart Marine batteries made sense. If I were cruising
>>> around the world I would have something different.
>>>
>>> Wally
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
>>>> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:32:01 -0300
>>>>
>>>> Wally,
>>>>
>>>> The benefits of 6 volt golf cart batteries don't apply to sailboats
>>>>
>> either.
>>
>>>> 12 Volt batteries can be built to the same specifications, and they
>>>>
>> are.
>>
>>>> Why not just get a 12 volt golf cart battery instead of 2 6s and avoid
>>>> all the extra exposed wiring in a marine environment?
>>>>
>>>> Electric Golf carts can't put back the juice they use. My boat has
>>>> never been externally charged--the electricity is self sustaining with
>>>> solar and engine. And I use just as much electricity as I want,
>>>> whenever I want. It's a no-brainer. As soon as you start really
>>>> looking into golf cart batteries you smack your head --
>>>>
>>>> They run $300 each! Got to have 4 of them to replace $100 worth of 12
>>>> volts that will last for 5 years...
>>>>
>>>> now I'm really done with this topic.
>>>>
>>>> bill effros
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Bill, You ask why don't cars have 2 6-volt batteries... Cars have a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> high
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> output alternator. The benefits of 6 volt golf cart battery don't
>>>>>
>> apply.
>>
>>>>> Cars need high output for starting.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I had a live aboard I would consider using 6 volt batteries. The
>>>>>
>> big
>>
>>>>> advantage to the golf cart battery is that they hold up much better
>>>>>
>> when
>>
>>>>> abused. They can be re-charged faster and last longer than 12 volts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> That is
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> why cruisers love them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wally
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:36:10 -0300
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stay away from this complexity. It's simply not needed in our boats.
>>>>>> Nobody runs out of power on our boats. The golf cart batteries don't
>>>>>> fit anywhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are worried about this, get an outboard with electric
>>>>>> start/generator. If your battery runs out, you pull the starter
>>>>>>
>> cord,
>>
>>>>>> start your motor, and it will provide you with enough electricity to
>>>>>> power your running lights. That's all you need. If it's daytime,
>>>>>>
>> you
>>
>>>>>> don't need any power at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When a golf cart battery is dead a golf cart can't move. Not so a
>>>>>> sailboat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your car doesn't have 2 golf cart batteries wired in series. Why
>>>>>>
>> not?
>>
>>>>>> The biggest draw most of us put on our batteries is the stereo
>>>>>>
>> system.
>>
>>>>>> I'm done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob Fletcher wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In his book "Sailboat Electonics Simplified" Don Casey has an
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> extensive
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> discussin of battery types and configurations. He seems to endorse
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> option of two 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series.
>>>>>>>
>> Apparently
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> they
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> are rugged and much more affordable than "dedicated" marine
>>>>>>>
>> batteries.
>>
>>>>>>> Bob Fletcher
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "John Lock" <jlock at relevantarts.com>
>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:32 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At 11:57 AM 4/11/2007 -0400, CORLEYMICHAELSIX at aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Got to buy new battery(s) for my 99 Rhodes. It is set up for and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> had
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> batteries before I put it in storage. Intending to buy deep cycle
>>>>>>>>> wet cells,
>>>>>>>>> debating weather to buy one Group 27 or 2 Group 24s or 2 Group
>>>>>>>>> 27s. Have solar
>>>>>>>>> panels, VHF, digital depth gauge and knot meter, pull start
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> outboard.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Need
>>>>>>>>> advice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Strangely enough, I was just reading an article about batteries the
>>>>>>>> other day! This article was written from an RV perspective, but
>>>>>>>>
>> I'm
>>
>>>>>>>> guessing our boat usage is pretty similar. One very intriguing
>>>>>>>> alternative was using 2, 6-volt golf cart batteries in series to
>>>>>>>> produce 12 volts. Apparently golf cart batteries offer some of the
>>>>>>>> highest amp-hour ratings available.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See article at
>>>>>>>> http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm Scroll down to
>>>>>>>> "Selecting batteries".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John Lock
>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
>>>>>>>> Lake Sinclair, GA
>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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