[Rhodes22-list] Battteries

TN Rhodey tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Sun Apr 15 09:36:15 EDT 2007 

Bill,

We are not reading the same sources...you mention you have done your own 
testing. Did you test golf cart batteries? If not I will stick with advice 
of those that have.

Wally


>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
>Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 17:52:37 -0300
>
>Wally,
>
>You're just picking fights without reading.
>
>Golf cart batteries make sense for golf carts.  They are a different
>size and voltage than batteries used for other purposes.   Banding them
>together and putting them into boats is ridiculous.
>
>Bill Effros
>
>
>
>TN Rhodey wrote:
> > Bill, So you know better than the entire Golf industry? Maybe green fees
> > could be lowered if they knew what you knew.....I got to believe the 
>golf
> > course industry has not been duped. I suspect they pay the extra bucks
> > because there is a difference. In any case... I said in my orignal post 
>for
> > my use they are not worth the cost. Wally
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> >> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> >> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:30:05 -0300
> >>
> >> Wally,
> >>
> >> They do make 12 volt Golf Cart Batteries.
> >>
> >> Golf Cart Batteries are designed similarly to "Deep Cycle Marine
> >> Batteries".
> >>
> >> Nobody uses the batteries on sailboats the same way golf carts use 
>their
> >> batteries--nor do we recharge them the same way for fear of blowing out
> >> the electrical circuits on our boats at the same time.
> >>
> >> Trojan, 6 volt golf cart, and other high end batteries are not worth 
>the
> >> extra cost to anybody with a Rhodes-22.
> >>
> >> I read the same stuff you read.  It doesn't cost that much to test out
> >> the theories, and I did so for years.  I have been swapping out
> >> batteries of all different types and costs, and I have the electrical
> >> monitoring equipment on board to compare one battery set with another.
> >>
> >> The best batteries I have ever had in the boat are the Kirkland
> >> batteries that Stan originally installed.  They were better
> >> electrically, and obviously they cost less than the West Marine, AGM, 
>or
> >> any other brand or type I tried.
> >>
> >> 1 12 volt is more than enough.
> >>
> >> 2 is complete redundancy.
> >>
> >> I have 2 -- at $50 each--so for $100 I have 0 electrical anxiety for 6
> >> years at a time.  Cheap at the price.
> >>
> >> I never have to recharge my batteries using shore power.  I burn less
> >> than 10 gallons of gas a year.  My batteries stay on board, summer and
> >> winter, hooked up and ready to go.
> >>
> >> My batteries are hooked up in parallel with no switch.  If one starts 
>to
> >> fail, the other brings it back up.  A dead short on one will not short
> >> out the other.  (yes, I tried)
> >>
> >> Most of these world cruisers have more dollars than sense.  They don't
> >> know what they're talking about 9/10s of the time.
> >>
> >> Golf cart batteries on boats are just plain silly.  The monstrously
> >> expensive boat batteries are not inherently more reliable than
> >> "ordinary" batteries.
> >>
> >> When R-22 newbies ask about batteries, the best advise to give them is
> >> to take what Stan provides.  2 is more than you'll ever need.
> >>
> >> Bill Effros
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> TN Rhodey wrote:
> >>
> >>> Bill,
> >>>
> >>> Your post has several errors. I don't know enough about battery design
> >>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>> explain in detail. Golf Carts usage runs down the battery almost every
> >>>
> >> day.
> >>
> >>> They are designed to run down to low levels and then quickly 
>recharged.
> >>>
> >> I am
> >>
> >>> not saying they are lighter or cheaper. I am saying they can be run 
>down
> >>>
> >> and
> >>
> >>> recharged (more times) and still live a long life. As you point out 
>they
> >>>
> >> are
> >>
> >>> expensive. There is a reason Golf Courses buy these expensive 
>batteries
> >>>
> >> and
> >>
> >>> it is not just size. Most 12-volt batteries are not built to the same
> >>> specifications as 6-volt Golf Cart batteries. There are other types of 
>6
> >>> volts batteries (motorcycle, old VW) that are dirt-cheap. There is a
> >>>
> >> reason.
> >>
> >>> The durability is why world cruisers like them. They may not be able 
>to
> >>>
> >> run
> >>
> >>> to Walmart when the battery dies. You ask why don't they make 12-volt
> >>>
> >> Golf
> >>
> >>> Cart batteries? If they used the same technology they would be too big
> >>>
> >> and
> >>
> >>> heavy for Golf Cart. Many cruisers will tell you that Trojan Batteries
> >>>
> >> (6
> >>
> >>> or12 volt) are the absolute best. They have a price tag quite a bit
> >>> different then Walmart. They are hundreds per and they are not your
> >>>
> >> average
> >>
> >>> battery. My buddy has a solar powered cabin and he swears by them.
> >>>
> >>> For my use the Walmart Marine batteries made sense. If I were cruising
> >>> around the world I would have something different.
> >>>
> >>> Wally
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> >>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> >>>> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:32:01 -0300
> >>>>
> >>>> Wally,
> >>>>
> >>>> The benefits of 6 volt golf cart batteries don't apply to sailboats
> >>>>
> >> either.
> >>
> >>>> 12 Volt batteries can be built to the same specifications, and they
> >>>>
> >> are.
> >>
> >>>> Why not just get a 12 volt golf cart battery instead of 2 6s and 
>avoid
> >>>> all the extra exposed wiring in a marine environment?
> >>>>
> >>>> Electric Golf carts can't put back the juice they use.  My boat has
> >>>> never been externally charged--the electricity is self sustaining 
>with
> >>>> solar and engine.  And I use just as much electricity as I want,
> >>>> whenever I want.  It's a no-brainer.  As soon as you start really
> >>>> looking into golf cart batteries you smack your head --
> >>>>
> >>>> They run $300 each!  Got to have 4 of them to replace $100 worth of 
>12
> >>>> volts that will last for 5 years...
> >>>>
> >>>> now I'm really done with this topic.
> >>>>
> >>>> bill effros
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Bill, You ask why don't cars have 2 6-volt batteries...   Cars have 
>a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> high
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> output alternator. The benefits of 6 volt golf cart battery don't
> >>>>>
> >> apply.
> >>
> >>>>> Cars need high output for starting.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If I had a live aboard I would consider using 6 volt batteries. The
> >>>>>
> >> big
> >>
> >>>>> advantage to the golf cart battery is that they hold up much better
> >>>>>
> >> when
> >>
> >>>>> abused. They can be re-charged faster and last longer than 12 volts.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> That is
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> why cruisers love them.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wally
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> >>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> >>>>>> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:36:10 -0300
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Bob,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Stay away from this complexity.  It's simply not needed in our 
>boats.
> >>>>>> Nobody runs out of power on our boats.  The golf cart batteries 
>don't
> >>>>>> fit anywhere.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If you are worried about this, get an outboard with electric
> >>>>>> start/generator.  If your battery runs out, you pull the starter
> >>>>>>
> >> cord,
> >>
> >>>>>> start your motor, and it will provide you with enough electricity 
>to
> >>>>>> power your running lights.  That's all you need.  If it's daytime,
> >>>>>>
> >> you
> >>
> >>>>>> don't need any power at all.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When a golf cart battery is dead a golf cart can't move.  Not so a
> >>>>>> sailboat.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Your car doesn't have 2 golf cart batteries wired in series.  Why
> >>>>>>
> >> not?
> >>
> >>>>>> The biggest draw most of us put on our batteries is the stereo
> >>>>>>
> >> system.
> >>
> >>>>>> I'm done.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Bob Fletcher wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In his book "Sailboat Electonics Simplified" Don Casey has an
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> extensive
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> discussin of battery types and configurations.  He seems to 
>endorse
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> option of two 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series.
> >>>>>>>
> >> Apparently
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> they
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> are rugged and much more affordable than "dedicated" marine
> >>>>>>>
> >> batteries.
> >>
> >>>>>>> Bob Fletcher
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> From: "John Lock" <jlock at relevantarts.com>
> >>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:32 AM
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> At 11:57 AM 4/11/2007 -0400, CORLEYMICHAELSIX at aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Got to buy new battery(s) for my 99 Rhodes.  It is set up for 
>and
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> had
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> 2
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> batteries before I put it in storage.  Intending to buy deep 
>cycle
> >>>>>>>>> wet  cells,
> >>>>>>>>> debating weather to buy one Group 27 or 2 Group 24s or 2 Group
> >>>>>>>>> 27s.   Have solar
> >>>>>>>>> panels, VHF, digital depth gauge and knot meter, pull  start
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> outboard.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Need
> >>>>>>>>> advice.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Strangely enough, I was just reading an article about batteries 
>the
> >>>>>>>> other day!  This article was written from an RV perspective, but
> >>>>>>>>
> >> I'm
> >>
> >>>>>>>> guessing our boat usage is pretty similar.  One very intriguing
> >>>>>>>> alternative was using 2, 6-volt golf cart batteries in series to
> >>>>>>>> produce 12 volts.  Apparently golf cart batteries offer some of 
>the
> >>>>>>>> highest amp-hour ratings available.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> See article at
> >>>>>>>> http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm   Scroll down 
>to
> >>>>>>>> "Selecting batteries".
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Cheers!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> John Lock
> >>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>>>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> >>>>>>>> Lake Sinclair, GA
> >>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >> savings
> >>
> >>>>>
> >> 
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> >>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
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> >>>>
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> >>>
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> >
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