[Rhodes22-list] Battteries

Sun Apr 15 09:57:58 EDT 2007

Wally,

For a good read on the subject pick up a copy of "Living on 12 Volts" by,
um, I forget.  When we landed on the beach after Katrina we lived off of a
generator and batteries for three months.  After moving inland we lived off
of batteries for another three months until electricity made it to our
rented spot.  We bought two huge 12 volt marine batteries that ran an
inverter for our computer and answering machine.  Eventually we figured out
how to live on about two hours of generator time per day.  There are two
schools of thought.  One is two hook up multible batteries in paralell so
you have more use time before you get to the crucial 50% discharge stage.
The other school says to alternate between batteries.  For my boat,
alternating makes more sense so one is always in reserve for engine
starting.

Brad

On 4/15/07, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> We are not reading the same sources...you mention you have done your own
> testing. Did you test golf cart batteries? If not I will stick with advice
> of those that have.
>
> Wally
>
>
> >From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> >Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 17:52:37 -0300
> >
> >Wally,
> >
> >You're just picking fights without reading.
> >
> >Golf cart batteries make sense for golf carts.  They are a different
> >size and voltage than batteries used for other purposes.   Banding them
> >together and putting them into boats is ridiculous.
> >
> >Bill Effros
> >
> >
> >
> >TN Rhodey wrote:
> > > Bill, So you know better than the entire Golf industry? Maybe green
> fees
> > > could be lowered if they knew what you knew.....I got to believe the
> >golf
> > > course industry has not been duped. I suspect they pay the extra bucks
> > > because there is a difference. In any case... I said in my orignal
> post
> >for
> > > my use they are not worth the cost. Wally
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > >> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > >> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:30:05 -0300
> > >>
> > >> Wally,
> > >>
> > >> They do make 12 volt Golf Cart Batteries.
> > >>
> > >> Golf Cart Batteries are designed similarly to "Deep Cycle Marine
> > >> Batteries".
> > >>
> > >> Nobody uses the batteries on sailboats the same way golf carts use
> >their
> > >> batteries--nor do we recharge them the same way for fear of blowing
> out
> > >> the electrical circuits on our boats at the same time.
> > >>
> > >> Trojan, 6 volt golf cart, and other high end batteries are not worth
> >the
> > >> extra cost to anybody with a Rhodes-22.
> > >>
> > >> I read the same stuff you read.  It doesn't cost that much to test
> out
> > >> the theories, and I did so for years.  I have been swapping out
> > >> batteries of all different types and costs, and I have the electrical
> > >> monitoring equipment on board to compare one battery set with
> another.
> > >>
> > >> The best batteries I have ever had in the boat are the Kirkland
> > >> batteries that Stan originally installed.  They were better
> > >> electrically, and obviously they cost less than the West Marine, AGM,
> >or
> > >> any other brand or type I tried.
> > >>
> > >> 1 12 volt is more than enough.
> > >>
> > >> 2 is complete redundancy.
> > >>
> > >> I have 2 -- at $50 each--so for $100 I have 0 electrical anxiety for
> 6
> > >> years at a time.  Cheap at the price.
> > >>
> > >> I never have to recharge my batteries using shore power.  I burn less
> > >> than 10 gallons of gas a year.  My batteries stay on board, summer
> and
> > >> winter, hooked up and ready to go.
> > >>
> > >> My batteries are hooked up in parallel with no switch.  If one starts
> >to
> > >> fail, the other brings it back up.  A dead short on one will not
> short
> > >> out the other.  (yes, I tried)
> > >>
> > >> Most of these world cruisers have more dollars than sense.  They
> don't
> > >> know what they're talking about 9/10s of the time.
> > >>
> > >> Golf cart batteries on boats are just plain silly.  The monstrously
> > >> expensive boat batteries are not inherently more reliable than
> > >> "ordinary" batteries.
> > >>
> > >> When R-22 newbies ask about batteries, the best advise to give them
> is
> > >> to take what Stan provides.  2 is more than you'll ever need.
> > >>
> > >> Bill Effros
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Bill,
> > >>>
> > >>> Your post has several errors. I don't know enough about battery
> design
> > >>>
> > >> to
> > >>
> > >>> explain in detail. Golf Carts usage runs down the battery almost
> every
> > >>>
> > >> day.
> > >>
> > >>> They are designed to run down to low levels and then quickly
> >recharged.
> > >>>
> > >> I am
> > >>
> > >>> not saying they are lighter or cheaper. I am saying they can be run
> >down
> > >>>
> > >> and
> > >>
> > >>> recharged (more times) and still live a long life. As you point out
> >they
> > >>>
> > >> are
> > >>
> > >>> expensive. There is a reason Golf Courses buy these expensive
> >batteries
> > >>>
> > >> and
> > >>
> > >>> it is not just size. Most 12-volt batteries are not built to the
> same
> > >>> specifications as 6-volt Golf Cart batteries. There are other types
> of
> >6
> > >>> volts batteries (motorcycle, old VW) that are dirt-cheap. There is a
> > >>>
> > >> reason.
> > >>
> > >>> The durability is why world cruisers like them. They may not be able
> >to
> > >>>
> > >> run
> > >>
> > >>> to Walmart when the battery dies. You ask why don't they make
> 12-volt
> > >>>
> > >> Golf
> > >>
> > >>> Cart batteries? If they used the same technology they would be too
> big
> > >>>
> > >> and
> > >>
> > >>> heavy for Golf Cart. Many cruisers will tell you that Trojan
> Batteries
> > >>>
> > >> (6
> > >>
> > >>> or12 volt) are the absolute best. They have a price tag quite a bit
> > >>> different then Walmart. They are hundreds per and they are not your
> > >>>
> > >> average
> > >>
> > >>> battery. My buddy has a solar powered cabin and he swears by them.
> > >>>
> > >>> For my use the Walmart Marine batteries made sense. If I were
> cruising
> > >>> around the world I would have something different.
> > >>>
> > >>> Wally
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > >>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > >>>> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:32:01 -0300
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Wally,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The benefits of 6 volt golf cart batteries don't apply to sailboats
> > >>>>
> > >> either.
> > >>
> > >>>> 12 Volt batteries can be built to the same specifications, and they
> > >>>>
> > >> are.
> > >>
> > >>>> Why not just get a 12 volt golf cart battery instead of 2 6s and
> >avoid
> > >>>> all the extra exposed wiring in a marine environment?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Electric Golf carts can't put back the juice they use.  My boat has
> > >>>> never been externally charged--the electricity is self sustaining
> >with
> > >>>> solar and engine.  And I use just as much electricity as I want,
> > >>>> whenever I want.  It's a no-brainer.  As soon as you start really
> > >>>> looking into golf cart batteries you smack your head --
> > >>>>
> > >>>> They run $300 each!  Got to have 4 of them to replace $100 worth of
> >12
> > >>>> volts that will last for 5 years...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> now I'm really done with this topic.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> bill effros
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Bill, You ask why don't cars have 2 6-volt batteries...   Cars
> have
> >a
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> high
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> output alternator. The benefits of 6 volt golf cart battery don't
> > >>>>>
> > >> apply.
> > >>
> > >>>>> Cars need high output for starting.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> If I had a live aboard I would consider using 6 volt batteries.
> The
> > >>>>>
> > >> big
> > >>
> > >>>>> advantage to the golf cart battery is that they hold up much
> better
> > >>>>>
> > >> when
> > >>
> > >>>>> abused. They can be re-charged faster and last longer than 12
> volts.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> That is
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> why cruisers love them.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Wally
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > >>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > >>>>>> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:36:10 -0300
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Bob,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Stay away from this complexity.  It's simply not needed in our
> >boats.
> > >>>>>> Nobody runs out of power on our boats.  The golf cart batteries
> >don't
> > >>>>>> fit anywhere.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> If you are worried about this, get an outboard with electric
> > >>>>>> start/generator.  If your battery runs out, you pull the starter
> > >>>>>>
> > >> cord,
> > >>
> > >>>>>> start your motor, and it will provide you with enough electricity
> >to
> > >>>>>> power your running lights.  That's all you need.  If it's
> daytime,
> > >>>>>>
> > >> you
> > >>
> > >>>>>> don't need any power at all.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> When a golf cart battery is dead a golf cart can't move.  Not so
> a
> > >>>>>> sailboat.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Your car doesn't have 2 golf cart batteries wired in series.  Why
> > >>>>>>
> > >> not?
> > >>
> > >>>>>> The biggest draw most of us put on our batteries is the stereo
> > >>>>>>
> > >> system.
> > >>
> > >>>>>> I'm done.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Bill Effros
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Bob Fletcher wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> In his book "Sailboat Electonics Simplified" Don Casey has an
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>> extensive
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> discussin of battery types and configurations.  He seems to
> >endorse
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> option of two 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> Apparently
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> they
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> are rugged and much more affordable than "dedicated" marine
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> batteries.
> > >>
> > >>>>>>> Bob Fletcher
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>>>> From: "John Lock" <jlock at relevantarts.com>
> > >>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:32 AM
> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> At 11:57 AM 4/11/2007 -0400, CORLEYMICHAELSIX at aol.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Got to buy new battery(s) for my 99 Rhodes.  It is set up for
> >and
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>> had
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> 2
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> batteries before I put it in storage.  Intending to buy deep
> >cycle
> > >>>>>>>>> wet  cells,
> > >>>>>>>>> debating weather to buy one Group 27 or 2 Group 24s or 2 Group
> > >>>>>>>>> 27s.   Have solar
> > >>>>>>>>> panels, VHF, digital depth gauge and knot meter, pull  start
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>> outboard.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Need
> > >>>>>>>>> advice.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Strangely enough, I was just reading an article about batteries
> >the
> > >>>>>>>> other day!  This article was written from an RV perspective,
> but
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> I'm
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>> guessing our boat usage is pretty similar.  One very intriguing
> > >>>>>>>> alternative was using 2, 6-volt golf cart batteries in series
> to
> > >>>>>>>> produce 12 volts.  Apparently golf cart batteries offer some of
> >the
> > >>>>>>>> highest amp-hour ratings available.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> See article at
> > >>>>>>>> http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm   Scroll
> down
> >to
> > >>>>>>>> "Selecting batteries".
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Cheers!
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> John Lock
> > >>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >>>>>>>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> > >>>>>>>> Lake Sinclair, GA
> > >>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
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> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
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