[Rhodes22-list] leaks

Sat Apr 14 19:07:36 EDT 2007

Dave,

I joined this list about a year ago because I was looking for help with 
repairing the cockpit floor on my '81.  After sealing many sources of water 
entry to the Laz/cabin bilge system, I realized that the cockpit floor could 
no longer be ignored.

First, I replaced the table mounting plate since the bottom had cracked and 
was permitting water to pass into the foam filled space below the floor and 
into the laz.  When doing this, be sure to use a good quality sealant, 
specified for the purpose.  Most of my R22 was originally sealed with a 
silicone product which did not last.  I have switched to "3M Marine Adhesive 
Sealant Fast Cure 4000 UV" with very good results for sealing fiberglass to 
metal and plastics.  In addition, be careful to make sure that the mounting 
screws still bite into something.  I installed threaded inserts using epoxy.

The floor had two additional major problems, both responsible for the 
admission of water.  When the boat was new, we witnessed the development of 
"star burst" patterns of damage in the cockpit floor gelcoat.  They were 
circular with radial lines extending 3 to 4 inches from the center.  We were 
told that we must have dropped something hard to have caused them (like a 
beer bottle), although we could not remember such events (we didn't have 
THAT much beer.)  Over the years, water must have entered the glass layers 
in the floor through these defects to cause the second and more serious 
problem: the separation or delamination of the floor components.  The freeze 
and thaw cycles of the NY winter increased the damage to floor, using the 
trapped water as a wedge.  This became evident when the floor "oil canned" 
as a large bubble formed beneath the upper layers.  This was compounded by 
the destruction of the foam below as water continued to pass through the 
floor, destroying the support system for the cockpit floor.  Eventually, the 
top layer of the floor cracked and I was able to see into the separated 
layers directly.

I concentrated my efforts on rebuilding the cockpit floor to take the 
punishment that it gets in normal use.  After drilling holes in the floor to 
access the internal layers, I spent several months drying out the floor 
using acetone and fans while keeping water out of the cockpit using tarps. 
I added structural wood supports and plywood to the foam below the cockpit. 
I removed all damaged foam and replaced it.  When the structure below was 
solid and the floor was dry, I used penetrating epoxy from West Marine to 
reattach the layers of glass, compressing the floor down using bricks on wax 
paper.  Now that the epoxy has cured, I will be filling the holes and any 
remaining voids using West System 105/206/407, finishing flush with the gel 
coat.

Because I am not skilled enough with gel coat repairs and wish to prevent a 
similar failure in the future, I am planning to finish the cockpit floor 
with "Treadmaster Original Smooth Pattern" anti-slip deck covering.  It is 
about $150 per 3' x 4' sheet, is 1/8" thick and is secured with water proof 
adhesive.  This should restore that cockpit floor, providing a really 
comfortable (on the feet) polymer surface that will absorb shock well and 
prevent water from entering the floor.

I sure hope that your cockpit floor is not as badly damaged.

Mike
s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
      Nissequogue River, NY

From: <DCLewis1 at aol.com> Saturday, April 14, 2007 11:06 AM
>
> Rory,
>
> I was out at the boat yesterday poking around.  The clean-up campaign  has
> started and I'm prepping our slip.  But I also spent time looking  for our
> leak(s) and this post is a progress report.
>
> I hosed down the lazz hatch hard and didn't get water in the lazz.  I 
> have
> to try it again, but frankly I was surprised and encouraged.  Of  course, 
> your
> situation may be different.
>
> I'll try hosing it down again the next time I'm out there, with a 
> different
> geometry, but my concerns about the lazz hatch have assuaged considerably.
>
> But the lazz did take in a little water in almost real time, and  in a way
> that was good because it facilitates my leak checking.
>
> I checked the cockpit drain as per John Lock.  At first I thought  that 
> was
> it, but then found that when that drain connection was sealed  some 
> sealant, or
> whatever, dripped down that hose and dried in a way that  makes it look 
> like
> a fresh wet streak down the hose, but on close inspection it  wasn't wet 
> or
> leaking.  If the hose in your boat looks like it's leaking I  encourage 
> you to
> evaluated it carefully to see whether it's really substantial  fresh 
> wetness,
> looks can be deceiving.  Ultimately I tied a piece  of paper towel around 
> the
> joint, closed the lazz and hosed the area  thoroughly - the towel remained 
> dry,
> it did not wick water.
>
> My current kick is the cockpit floor, and specifically the table mount in
> the cockpit floor.  The cockpit floor gets a lot of water and the lazz can 
> take
> a fair amount of water in a good rain.  I took the winter tarp off the 
> boat
> and just sealed the cockpit floor table flange.  We're supposed to get  a 
> real
> soaking rain starting tonight (2") so I'll check the boat for leakage Mon 
> or
> Tues.
>
> If you have a table mount in your cockpit floor, you might examine it
> carefully and even wet it down to see if there is leakage.  I think I 
> found  that if
> I hosed that area water would subsequently leak back into the  lazz.  The
> water appears to be coming into the lazz back from the cockpit  area (i.e. 
> from
> forward), as opposed to running down down the length of the lazz  from the
> transom (i.e. from the drains, fuel hose port, lift web slot,  etc) - but 
> its
> hard to be sure.  Also, getting water in the lazz  when I hose down the 
> floor
> flange is not totally conclusive - that water will  subsequently go to a 
> lot of
> places.
>
> We also have a crack across our cockpit floor near the forward  bulkhead.
> I'd bet that's not the source of our leak the winter because I  covered it 
> with
> waterproof tape in the fall.  That area has been  exposed to substantial 
> rain
> and snow when the lazz remained dry.   Nevertheless I think I should fill 
> and
> seal it when the boat goes back  in the water, just to be sure.  Do you 
> have
> cracks in your floor?
>
> Please let me know how your leak checking is progressing, we may have very
> similar problems.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
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