[Rhodes22-list] Battteries
TN Rhodey
tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Sun Apr 15 10:15:25 EDT 2007
Brad,
If I ever leave for extended cruising I will need to do some reading and
will look into the book you mention. I have 2 close friends (both sail) who
have cabins/homes that are 100% solar and genrator powered. One buddy has
been doing it for over 20 years. He has a small cabin in the foothills he
uses as second home and commercial blueberry farm. Photo attached. He has
sisterns for rainwater collection and propane for heat. He even has a wood
fired hot tub.
I also have another firiend who is married and has 2 kids. They are totally
off the grid. The primary residence is 100% 12 volt. So I have some good
sources. Both swear by Trojan batteries. Room is not an issue so they use 12
volt. I don't know all of the details but it works well for them.
Wally
>From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
>Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 07:57:58 -0600
>
>Wally,
>
>For a good read on the subject pick up a copy of "Living on 12 Volts" by,
>um, I forget. When we landed on the beach after Katrina we lived off of a
>generator and batteries for three months. After moving inland we lived off
>of batteries for another three months until electricity made it to our
>rented spot. We bought two huge 12 volt marine batteries that ran an
>inverter for our computer and answering machine. Eventually we figured out
>how to live on about two hours of generator time per day. There are two
>schools of thought. One is two hook up multible batteries in paralell so
>you have more use time before you get to the crucial 50% discharge stage.
>The other school says to alternate between batteries. For my boat,
>alternating makes more sense so one is always in reserve for engine
>starting.
>
>Brad
>
>On 4/15/07, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > We are not reading the same sources...you mention you have done your own
> > testing. Did you test golf cart batteries? If not I will stick with
>advice
> > of those that have.
> >
> > Wally
> >
> >
> > >From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > >Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 17:52:37 -0300
> > >
> > >Wally,
> > >
> > >You're just picking fights without reading.
> > >
> > >Golf cart batteries make sense for golf carts. They are a different
> > >size and voltage than batteries used for other purposes. Banding them
> > >together and putting them into boats is ridiculous.
> > >
> > >Bill Effros
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >TN Rhodey wrote:
> > > > Bill, So you know better than the entire Golf industry? Maybe green
> > fees
> > > > could be lowered if they knew what you knew.....I got to believe the
> > >golf
> > > > course industry has not been duped. I suspect they pay the extra
>bucks
> > > > because there is a difference. In any case... I said in my orignal
> > post
> > >for
> > > > my use they are not worth the cost. Wally
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > >> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > >> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:30:05 -0300
> > > >>
> > > >> Wally,
> > > >>
> > > >> They do make 12 volt Golf Cart Batteries.
> > > >>
> > > >> Golf Cart Batteries are designed similarly to "Deep Cycle Marine
> > > >> Batteries".
> > > >>
> > > >> Nobody uses the batteries on sailboats the same way golf carts use
> > >their
> > > >> batteries--nor do we recharge them the same way for fear of blowing
> > out
> > > >> the electrical circuits on our boats at the same time.
> > > >>
> > > >> Trojan, 6 volt golf cart, and other high end batteries are not
>worth
> > >the
> > > >> extra cost to anybody with a Rhodes-22.
> > > >>
> > > >> I read the same stuff you read. It doesn't cost that much to test
> > out
> > > >> the theories, and I did so for years. I have been swapping out
> > > >> batteries of all different types and costs, and I have the
>electrical
> > > >> monitoring equipment on board to compare one battery set with
> > another.
> > > >>
> > > >> The best batteries I have ever had in the boat are the Kirkland
> > > >> batteries that Stan originally installed. They were better
> > > >> electrically, and obviously they cost less than the West Marine,
>AGM,
> > >or
> > > >> any other brand or type I tried.
> > > >>
> > > >> 1 12 volt is more than enough.
> > > >>
> > > >> 2 is complete redundancy.
> > > >>
> > > >> I have 2 -- at $50 each--so for $100 I have 0 electrical anxiety
>for
> > 6
> > > >> years at a time. Cheap at the price.
> > > >>
> > > >> I never have to recharge my batteries using shore power. I burn
>less
> > > >> than 10 gallons of gas a year. My batteries stay on board, summer
> > and
> > > >> winter, hooked up and ready to go.
> > > >>
> > > >> My batteries are hooked up in parallel with no switch. If one
>starts
> > >to
> > > >> fail, the other brings it back up. A dead short on one will not
> > short
> > > >> out the other. (yes, I tried)
> > > >>
> > > >> Most of these world cruisers have more dollars than sense. They
> > don't
> > > >> know what they're talking about 9/10s of the time.
> > > >>
> > > >> Golf cart batteries on boats are just plain silly. The monstrously
> > > >> expensive boat batteries are not inherently more reliable than
> > > >> "ordinary" batteries.
> > > >>
> > > >> When R-22 newbies ask about batteries, the best advise to give them
> > is
> > > >> to take what Stan provides. 2 is more than you'll ever need.
> > > >>
> > > >> Bill Effros
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Bill,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Your post has several errors. I don't know enough about battery
> > design
> > > >>>
> > > >> to
> > > >>
> > > >>> explain in detail. Golf Carts usage runs down the battery almost
> > every
> > > >>>
> > > >> day.
> > > >>
> > > >>> They are designed to run down to low levels and then quickly
> > >recharged.
> > > >>>
> > > >> I am
> > > >>
> > > >>> not saying they are lighter or cheaper. I am saying they can be
>run
> > >down
> > > >>>
> > > >> and
> > > >>
> > > >>> recharged (more times) and still live a long life. As you point
>out
> > >they
> > > >>>
> > > >> are
> > > >>
> > > >>> expensive. There is a reason Golf Courses buy these expensive
> > >batteries
> > > >>>
> > > >> and
> > > >>
> > > >>> it is not just size. Most 12-volt batteries are not built to the
> > same
> > > >>> specifications as 6-volt Golf Cart batteries. There are other
>types
> > of
> > >6
> > > >>> volts batteries (motorcycle, old VW) that are dirt-cheap. There is
>a
> > > >>>
> > > >> reason.
> > > >>
> > > >>> The durability is why world cruisers like them. They may not be
>able
> > >to
> > > >>>
> > > >> run
> > > >>
> > > >>> to Walmart when the battery dies. You ask why don't they make
> > 12-volt
> > > >>>
> > > >> Golf
> > > >>
> > > >>> Cart batteries? If they used the same technology they would be too
> > big
> > > >>>
> > > >> and
> > > >>
> > > >>> heavy for Golf Cart. Many cruisers will tell you that Trojan
> > Batteries
> > > >>>
> > > >> (6
> > > >>
> > > >>> or12 volt) are the absolute best. They have a price tag quite a
>bit
> > > >>> different then Walmart. They are hundreds per and they are not
>your
> > > >>>
> > > >> average
> > > >>
> > > >>> battery. My buddy has a solar powered cabin and he swears by them.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> For my use the Walmart Marine batteries made sense. If I were
> > cruising
> > > >>> around the world I would have something different.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Wally
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > >>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > >>>> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:32:01 -0300
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Wally,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The benefits of 6 volt golf cart batteries don't apply to
>sailboats
> > > >>>>
> > > >> either.
> > > >>
> > > >>>> 12 Volt batteries can be built to the same specifications, and
>they
> > > >>>>
> > > >> are.
> > > >>
> > > >>>> Why not just get a 12 volt golf cart battery instead of 2 6s and
> > >avoid
> > > >>>> all the extra exposed wiring in a marine environment?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Electric Golf carts can't put back the juice they use. My boat
>has
> > > >>>> never been externally charged--the electricity is self sustaining
> > >with
> > > >>>> solar and engine. And I use just as much electricity as I want,
> > > >>>> whenever I want. It's a no-brainer. As soon as you start really
> > > >>>> looking into golf cart batteries you smack your head --
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> They run $300 each! Got to have 4 of them to replace $100 worth
>of
> > >12
> > > >>>> volts that will last for 5 years...
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> now I'm really done with this topic.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> bill effros
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Bill, You ask why don't cars have 2 6-volt batteries... Cars
> > have
> > >a
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> high
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> output alternator. The benefits of 6 volt golf cart battery
>don't
> > > >>>>>
> > > >> apply.
> > > >>
> > > >>>>> Cars need high output for starting.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> If I had a live aboard I would consider using 6 volt batteries.
> > The
> > > >>>>>
> > > >> big
> > > >>
> > > >>>>> advantage to the golf cart battery is that they hold up much
> > better
> > > >>>>>
> > > >> when
> > > >>
> > > >>>>> abused. They can be re-charged faster and last longer than 12
> > volts.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> That is
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> why cruisers love them.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Wally
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > >>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > >>>>>> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:36:10 -0300
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Bob,
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Stay away from this complexity. It's simply not needed in our
> > >boats.
> > > >>>>>> Nobody runs out of power on our boats. The golf cart batteries
> > >don't
> > > >>>>>> fit anywhere.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> If you are worried about this, get an outboard with electric
> > > >>>>>> start/generator. If your battery runs out, you pull the
>starter
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >> cord,
> > > >>
> > > >>>>>> start your motor, and it will provide you with enough
>electricity
> > >to
> > > >>>>>> power your running lights. That's all you need. If it's
> > daytime,
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >> you
> > > >>
> > > >>>>>> don't need any power at all.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> When a golf cart battery is dead a golf cart can't move. Not
>so
> > a
> > > >>>>>> sailboat.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Your car doesn't have 2 golf cart batteries wired in series.
>Why
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >> not?
> > > >>
> > > >>>>>> The biggest draw most of us put on our batteries is the stereo
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >> system.
> > > >>
> > > >>>>>> I'm done.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Bill Effros
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Bob Fletcher wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> In his book "Sailboat Electonics Simplified" Don Casey has an
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> extensive
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>>> discussin of battery types and configurations. He seems to
> > >endorse
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>>> option of two 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >> Apparently
> > > >>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> they
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> are rugged and much more affordable than "dedicated" marine
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >> batteries.
> > > >>
> > > >>>>>>> Bob Fletcher
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >>>>>>> From: "John Lock" <jlock at relevantarts.com>
> > > >>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:32 AM
> > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> At 11:57 AM 4/11/2007 -0400, CORLEYMICHAELSIX at aol.com wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Got to buy new battery(s) for my 99 Rhodes. It is set up
>for
> > >and
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> had
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>> 2
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> batteries before I put it in storage. Intending to buy deep
> > >cycle
> > > >>>>>>>>> wet cells,
> > > >>>>>>>>> debating weather to buy one Group 27 or 2 Group 24s or 2
>Group
> > > >>>>>>>>> 27s. Have solar
> > > >>>>>>>>> panels, VHF, digital depth gauge and knot meter, pull start
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> outboard.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Need
> > > >>>>>>>>> advice.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Strangely enough, I was just reading an article about
>batteries
> > >the
> > > >>>>>>>> other day! This article was written from an RV perspective,
> > but
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >> I'm
> > > >>
> > > >>>>>>>> guessing our boat usage is pretty similar. One very
>intriguing
> > > >>>>>>>> alternative was using 2, 6-volt golf cart batteries in series
> > to
> > > >>>>>>>> produce 12 volts. Apparently golf cart batteries offer some
>of
> > >the
> > > >>>>>>>> highest amp-hour ratings available.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> See article at
> > > >>>>>>>> http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm Scroll
> > down
> > >to
> > > >>>>>>>> "Selecting batteries".
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Cheers!
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> John Lock
> > > >>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > >>>>>>>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> > > >>>>>>>> Lake Sinclair, GA
> > > >>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > > >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > > >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > > >>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
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