[Rhodes22-list] Battteries

Sun Apr 15 10:33:45 EDT 2007

Wally,

I found the book in my library (thought it was in Gulfport).  "Living on 12
Volts with Ample Power" by David Smith and Ruth Ishihara.  We just bought a
1.7 acre commercial property for a permanent home for our business and had
to jump through all kinds of hoops to get power.  Eventually we told zoning
and the power company we were in the nursery business and have actually
decided to follow up on our "joke" by actually doing it!  For a while it
looked like we might have to live off grid ourselves.  Get a Northern Tool
catalog or go to their site, NorthernTool.com to look at solar panels, wind
generators, etc.  You can beat their prices on the web but it's a good one
stop shopping point to start. We too have a need for a cistern system.  You
have to go about 400 feet deep for good water and city water won't be
available for a few more years.  When it does come we hope to be in on
installing some of the pipe (our speciality).  In the meantime I researching
cistern systems to collect water off the two shop buildings (once the
hurricane damaged roofs are replaced).

The photo didn't come through.  I'm anxious to see your friends place.  It
sounds nice.

Brad

On 4/15/07, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Brad,
>
> If I ever leave for extended cruising I will need to do some reading and
> will look into the book you mention. I have 2 close friends (both sail)
> who
> have cabins/homes that are 100% solar and genrator powered. One buddy has
> been doing it for over 20 years. He has a small cabin in the foothills he
> uses as second home and commercial blueberry farm. Photo attached. He has
> sisterns for rainwater collection and propane for heat. He even has a wood
> fired hot tub.
>
> I also have another firiend who is married and has 2 kids. They are
> totally
> off the grid. The primary residence is 100% 12 volt. So I have some good
> sources. Both swear by Trojan batteries. Room is not an issue so they use
> 12
> volt. I don't know all of the details but it works well for them.
>
> Wally
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> >Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 07:57:58 -0600
> >
> >Wally,
> >
> >For a good read on the subject pick up a copy of "Living on 12 Volts" by,
> >um, I forget.  When we landed on the beach after Katrina we lived off of
> a
> >generator and batteries for three months.  After moving inland we lived
> off
> >of batteries for another three months until electricity made it to our
> >rented spot.  We bought two huge 12 volt marine batteries that ran an
> >inverter for our computer and answering machine.  Eventually we figured
> out
> >how to live on about two hours of generator time per day.  There are two
> >schools of thought.  One is two hook up multible batteries in paralell so
> >you have more use time before you get to the crucial 50% discharge stage.
> >The other school says to alternate between batteries.  For my boat,
> >alternating makes more sense so one is always in reserve for engine
> >starting.
> >
> >Brad
> >
> >On 4/15/07, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > We are not reading the same sources...you mention you have done your
> own
> > > testing. Did you test golf cart batteries? If not I will stick with
> >advice
> > > of those that have.
> > >
> > > Wally
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > >Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 17:52:37 -0300
> > > >
> > > >Wally,
> > > >
> > > >You're just picking fights without reading.
> > > >
> > > >Golf cart batteries make sense for golf carts.  They are a different
> > > >size and voltage than batteries used for other purposes.   Banding
> them
> > > >together and putting them into boats is ridiculous.
> > > >
> > > >Bill Effros
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >TN Rhodey wrote:
> > > > > Bill, So you know better than the entire Golf industry? Maybe
> green
> > > fees
> > > > > could be lowered if they knew what you knew.....I got to believe
> the
> > > >golf
> > > > > course industry has not been duped. I suspect they pay the extra
> >bucks
> > > > > because there is a difference. In any case... I said in my orignal
> > > post
> > > >for
> > > > > my use they are not worth the cost. Wally
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > > >> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > > >> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:30:05 -0300
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Wally,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> They do make 12 volt Golf Cart Batteries.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Golf Cart Batteries are designed similarly to "Deep Cycle Marine
> > > > >> Batteries".
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Nobody uses the batteries on sailboats the same way golf carts
> use
> > > >their
> > > > >> batteries--nor do we recharge them the same way for fear of
> blowing
> > > out
> > > > >> the electrical circuits on our boats at the same time.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Trojan, 6 volt golf cart, and other high end batteries are not
> >worth
> > > >the
> > > > >> extra cost to anybody with a Rhodes-22.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I read the same stuff you read.  It doesn't cost that much to
> test
> > > out
> > > > >> the theories, and I did so for years.  I have been swapping out
> > > > >> batteries of all different types and costs, and I have the
> >electrical
> > > > >> monitoring equipment on board to compare one battery set with
> > > another.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The best batteries I have ever had in the boat are the Kirkland
> > > > >> batteries that Stan originally installed.  They were better
> > > > >> electrically, and obviously they cost less than the West Marine,
> >AGM,
> > > >or
> > > > >> any other brand or type I tried.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 1 12 volt is more than enough.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2 is complete redundancy.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I have 2 -- at $50 each--so for $100 I have 0 electrical anxiety
> >for
> > > 6
> > > > >> years at a time.  Cheap at the price.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I never have to recharge my batteries using shore power.  I burn
> >less
> > > > >> than 10 gallons of gas a year.  My batteries stay on board,
> summer
> > > and
> > > > >> winter, hooked up and ready to go.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> My batteries are hooked up in parallel with no switch.  If one
> >starts
> > > >to
> > > > >> fail, the other brings it back up.  A dead short on one will not
> > > short
> > > > >> out the other.  (yes, I tried)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Most of these world cruisers have more dollars than sense.  They
> > > don't
> > > > >> know what they're talking about 9/10s of the time.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Golf cart batteries on boats are just plain silly.  The
> monstrously
> > > > >> expensive boat batteries are not inherently more reliable than
> > > > >> "ordinary" batteries.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> When R-22 newbies ask about batteries, the best advise to give
> them
> > > is
> > > > >> to take what Stan provides.  2 is more than you'll ever need.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Bill Effros
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Bill,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Your post has several errors. I don't know enough about battery
> > > design
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> to
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> explain in detail. Golf Carts usage runs down the battery almost
> > > every
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> day.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> They are designed to run down to low levels and then quickly
> > > >recharged.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> I am
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> not saying they are lighter or cheaper. I am saying they can be
> >run
> > > >down
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> and
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> recharged (more times) and still live a long life. As you point
> >out
> > > >they
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> are
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> expensive. There is a reason Golf Courses buy these expensive
> > > >batteries
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> and
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> it is not just size. Most 12-volt batteries are not built to the
> > > same
> > > > >>> specifications as 6-volt Golf Cart batteries. There are other
> >types
> > > of
> > > >6
> > > > >>> volts batteries (motorcycle, old VW) that are dirt-cheap. There
> is
> >a
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> reason.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> The durability is why world cruisers like them. They may not be
> >able
> > > >to
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> run
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> to Walmart when the battery dies. You ask why don't they make
> > > 12-volt
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> Golf
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Cart batteries? If they used the same technology they would be
> too
> > > big
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> and
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> heavy for Golf Cart. Many cruisers will tell you that Trojan
> > > Batteries
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> (6
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> or12 volt) are the absolute best. They have a price tag quite a
> >bit
> > > > >>> different then Walmart. They are hundreds per and they are not
> >your
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> average
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> battery. My buddy has a solar powered cabin and he swears by
> them.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> For my use the Walmart Marine batteries made sense. If I were
> > > cruising
> > > > >>> around the world I would have something different.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Wally
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > > >>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > > >>>> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:32:01 -0300
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Wally,
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> The benefits of 6 volt golf cart batteries don't apply to
> >sailboats
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >> either.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>> 12 Volt batteries can be built to the same specifications, and
> >they
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >> are.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>> Why not just get a 12 volt golf cart battery instead of 2 6s
> and
> > > >avoid
> > > > >>>> all the extra exposed wiring in a marine environment?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Electric Golf carts can't put back the juice they use.  My boat
> >has
> > > > >>>> never been externally charged--the electricity is self
> sustaining
> > > >with
> > > > >>>> solar and engine.  And I use just as much electricity as I
> want,
> > > > >>>> whenever I want.  It's a no-brainer.  As soon as you start
> really
> > > > >>>> looking into golf cart batteries you smack your head --
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> They run $300 each!  Got to have 4 of them to replace $100
> worth
> >of
> > > >12
> > > > >>>> volts that will last for 5 years...
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> now I'm really done with this topic.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> bill effros
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> Bill, You ask why don't cars have 2 6-volt batteries...   Cars
> > > have
> > > >a
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>> high
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> output alternator. The benefits of 6 volt golf cart battery
> >don't
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> apply.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>> Cars need high output for starting.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> If I had a live aboard I would consider using 6 volt
> batteries.
> > > The
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> big
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>> advantage to the golf cart battery is that they hold up much
> > > better
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> when
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>> abused. They can be re-charged faster and last longer than 12
> > > volts.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>> That is
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> why cruisers love them.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Wally
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > > >>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >
> > > > >>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > > >>>>>> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:36:10 -0300
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Bob,
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Stay away from this complexity.  It's simply not needed in
> our
> > > >boats.
> > > > >>>>>> Nobody runs out of power on our boats.  The golf cart
> batteries
> > > >don't
> > > > >>>>>> fit anywhere.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> If you are worried about this, get an outboard with electric
> > > > >>>>>> start/generator.  If your battery runs out, you pull the
> >starter
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >> cord,
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>> start your motor, and it will provide you with enough
> >electricity
> > > >to
> > > > >>>>>> power your running lights.  That's all you need.  If it's
> > > daytime,
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >> you
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>> don't need any power at all.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> When a golf cart battery is dead a golf cart can't move.  Not
> >so
> > > a
> > > > >>>>>> sailboat.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Your car doesn't have 2 golf cart batteries wired in series.
> >Why
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >> not?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>> The biggest draw most of us put on our batteries is the
> stereo
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >> system.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>> I'm done.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Bill Effros
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Bob Fletcher wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> In his book "Sailboat Electonics Simplified" Don Casey has
> an
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>> extensive
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> discussin of battery types and configurations.  He seems to
> > > >endorse
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> option of two 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >> Apparently
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> they
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> are rugged and much more affordable than "dedicated" marine
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >> batteries.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>>> Bob Fletcher
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >>>>>>> From: "John Lock" <jlock at relevantarts.com>
> > > > >>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:32 AM
> > > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> At 11:57 AM 4/11/2007 -0400, CORLEYMICHAELSIX at aol.comwrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Got to buy new battery(s) for my 99 Rhodes.  It is set up
> >for
> > > >and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>> had
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>> 2
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> batteries before I put it in storage.  Intending to buy
> deep
> > > >cycle
> > > > >>>>>>>>> wet  cells,
> > > > >>>>>>>>> debating weather to buy one Group 27 or 2 Group 24s or 2
> >Group
> > > > >>>>>>>>> 27s.   Have solar
> > > > >>>>>>>>> panels, VHF, digital depth gauge and knot meter,
> pull  start
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>> outboard.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Need
> > > > >>>>>>>>> advice.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Strangely enough, I was just reading an article about
> >batteries
> > > >the
> > > > >>>>>>>> other day!  This article was written from an RV
> perspective,
> > > but
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >> I'm
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>>>> guessing our boat usage is pretty similar.  One very
> >intriguing
> > > > >>>>>>>> alternative was using 2, 6-volt golf cart batteries in
> series
> > > to
> > > > >>>>>>>> produce 12 volts.  Apparently golf cart batteries offer
> some
> >of
> > > >the
> > > > >>>>>>>> highest amp-hour ratings available.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> See article at
> > > > >>>>>>>> http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm   Scroll
> > > down
> > > >to
> > > > >>>>>>>> "Selecting batteries".
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Cheers!
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> John Lock
> > > > >>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > >>>>>>>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> > > > >>>>>>>> Lake Sinclair, GA
> > > > >>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > > > >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > > > >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > > > >>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> >_________________________________________________________________
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> > >
> >
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