[Rhodes22-list] Battteries

Sun Apr 15 10:52:06 EDT 2007

Wally,

Here's another book you should read. Had to look it up on the web since my
copy developed "feet".  Brad

Sensible cruising, the Thoreau approach : a philosophic and practical
approach to cruising *by Don
Casey<http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/search?q=au%3ADon+Casey&qt=hot_author>;
Lew Hackler<http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/search?q=au%3ALew+Hackler&qt=hot_author>

*

On 4/15/07, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Brad,
>
> If I ever leave for extended cruising I will need to do some reading and
> will look into the book you mention. I have 2 close friends (both sail)
> who
> have cabins/homes that are 100% solar and genrator powered. One buddy has
> been doing it for over 20 years. He has a small cabin in the foothills he
> uses as second home and commercial blueberry farm. Photo attached. He has
> sisterns for rainwater collection and propane for heat. He even has a wood
> fired hot tub.
>
> I also have another firiend who is married and has 2 kids. They are
> totally
> off the grid. The primary residence is 100% 12 volt. So I have some good
> sources. Both swear by Trojan batteries. Room is not an issue so they use
> 12
> volt. I don't know all of the details but it works well for them.
>
> Wally
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> >Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 07:57:58 -0600
> >
> >Wally,
> >
> >For a good read on the subject pick up a copy of "Living on 12 Volts" by,
> >um, I forget.  When we landed on the beach after Katrina we lived off of
> a
> >generator and batteries for three months.  After moving inland we lived
> off
> >of batteries for another three months until electricity made it to our
> >rented spot.  We bought two huge 12 volt marine batteries that ran an
> >inverter for our computer and answering machine.  Eventually we figured
> out
> >how to live on about two hours of generator time per day.  There are two
> >schools of thought.  One is two hook up multible batteries in paralell so
> >you have more use time before you get to the crucial 50% discharge stage.
> >The other school says to alternate between batteries.  For my boat,
> >alternating makes more sense so one is always in reserve for engine
> >starting.
> >
> >Brad
> >
> >On 4/15/07, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > We are not reading the same sources...you mention you have done your
> own
> > > testing. Did you test golf cart batteries? If not I will stick with
> >advice
> > > of those that have.
> > >
> > > Wally
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > >Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 17:52:37 -0300
> > > >
> > > >Wally,
> > > >
> > > >You're just picking fights without reading.
> > > >
> > > >Golf cart batteries make sense for golf carts.  They are a different
> > > >size and voltage than batteries used for other purposes.   Banding
> them
> > > >together and putting them into boats is ridiculous.
> > > >
> > > >Bill Effros
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >TN Rhodey wrote:
> > > > > Bill, So you know better than the entire Golf industry? Maybe
> green
> > > fees
> > > > > could be lowered if they knew what you knew.....I got to believe
> the
> > > >golf
> > > > > course industry has not been duped. I suspect they pay the extra
> >bucks
> > > > > because there is a difference. In any case... I said in my orignal
> > > post
> > > >for
> > > > > my use they are not worth the cost. Wally
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > > >> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > > >> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:30:05 -0300
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Wally,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> They do make 12 volt Golf Cart Batteries.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Golf Cart Batteries are designed similarly to "Deep Cycle Marine
> > > > >> Batteries".
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Nobody uses the batteries on sailboats the same way golf carts
> use
> > > >their
> > > > >> batteries--nor do we recharge them the same way for fear of
> blowing
> > > out
> > > > >> the electrical circuits on our boats at the same time.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Trojan, 6 volt golf cart, and other high end batteries are not
> >worth
> > > >the
> > > > >> extra cost to anybody with a Rhodes-22.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I read the same stuff you read.  It doesn't cost that much to
> test
> > > out
> > > > >> the theories, and I did so for years.  I have been swapping out
> > > > >> batteries of all different types and costs, and I have the
> >electrical
> > > > >> monitoring equipment on board to compare one battery set with
> > > another.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The best batteries I have ever had in the boat are the Kirkland
> > > > >> batteries that Stan originally installed.  They were better
> > > > >> electrically, and obviously they cost less than the West Marine,
> >AGM,
> > > >or
> > > > >> any other brand or type I tried.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 1 12 volt is more than enough.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2 is complete redundancy.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I have 2 -- at $50 each--so for $100 I have 0 electrical anxiety
> >for
> > > 6
> > > > >> years at a time.  Cheap at the price.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I never have to recharge my batteries using shore power.  I burn
> >less
> > > > >> than 10 gallons of gas a year.  My batteries stay on board,
> summer
> > > and
> > > > >> winter, hooked up and ready to go.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> My batteries are hooked up in parallel with no switch.  If one
> >starts
> > > >to
> > > > >> fail, the other brings it back up.  A dead short on one will not
> > > short
> > > > >> out the other.  (yes, I tried)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Most of these world cruisers have more dollars than sense.  They
> > > don't
> > > > >> know what they're talking about 9/10s of the time.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Golf cart batteries on boats are just plain silly.  The
> monstrously
> > > > >> expensive boat batteries are not inherently more reliable than
> > > > >> "ordinary" batteries.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> When R-22 newbies ask about batteries, the best advise to give
> them
> > > is
> > > > >> to take what Stan provides.  2 is more than you'll ever need.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Bill Effros
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Bill,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Your post has several errors. I don't know enough about battery
> > > design
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> to
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> explain in detail. Golf Carts usage runs down the battery almost
> > > every
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> day.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> They are designed to run down to low levels and then quickly
> > > >recharged.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> I am
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> not saying they are lighter or cheaper. I am saying they can be
> >run
> > > >down
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> and
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> recharged (more times) and still live a long life. As you point
> >out
> > > >they
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> are
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> expensive. There is a reason Golf Courses buy these expensive
> > > >batteries
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> and
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> it is not just size. Most 12-volt batteries are not built to the
> > > same
> > > > >>> specifications as 6-volt Golf Cart batteries. There are other
> >types
> > > of
> > > >6
> > > > >>> volts batteries (motorcycle, old VW) that are dirt-cheap. There
> is
> >a
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> reason.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> The durability is why world cruisers like them. They may not be
> >able
> > > >to
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> run
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> to Walmart when the battery dies. You ask why don't they make
> > > 12-volt
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> Golf
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Cart batteries? If they used the same technology they would be
> too
> > > big
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> and
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> heavy for Golf Cart. Many cruisers will tell you that Trojan
> > > Batteries
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> (6
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> or12 volt) are the absolute best. They have a price tag quite a
> >bit
> > > > >>> different then Walmart. They are hundreds per and they are not
> >your
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> average
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> battery. My buddy has a solar powered cabin and he swears by
> them.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> For my use the Walmart Marine batteries made sense. If I were
> > > cruising
> > > > >>> around the world I would have something different.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Wally
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > > >>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > > >>>> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:32:01 -0300
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Wally,
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> The benefits of 6 volt golf cart batteries don't apply to
> >sailboats
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >> either.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>> 12 Volt batteries can be built to the same specifications, and
> >they
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >> are.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>> Why not just get a 12 volt golf cart battery instead of 2 6s
> and
> > > >avoid
> > > > >>>> all the extra exposed wiring in a marine environment?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Electric Golf carts can't put back the juice they use.  My boat
> >has
> > > > >>>> never been externally charged--the electricity is self
> sustaining
> > > >with
> > > > >>>> solar and engine.  And I use just as much electricity as I
> want,
> > > > >>>> whenever I want.  It's a no-brainer.  As soon as you start
> really
> > > > >>>> looking into golf cart batteries you smack your head --
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> They run $300 each!  Got to have 4 of them to replace $100
> worth
> >of
> > > >12
> > > > >>>> volts that will last for 5 years...
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> now I'm really done with this topic.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> bill effros
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> Bill, You ask why don't cars have 2 6-volt batteries...   Cars
> > > have
> > > >a
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>> high
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> output alternator. The benefits of 6 volt golf cart battery
> >don't
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> apply.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>> Cars need high output for starting.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> If I had a live aboard I would consider using 6 volt
> batteries.
> > > The
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> big
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>> advantage to the golf cart battery is that they hold up much
> > > better
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >> when
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>> abused. They can be re-charged faster and last longer than 12
> > > volts.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>> That is
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> why cruisers love them.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Wally
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > > >>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >
> > > > >>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > > >>>>>> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:36:10 -0300
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Bob,
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Stay away from this complexity.  It's simply not needed in
> our
> > > >boats.
> > > > >>>>>> Nobody runs out of power on our boats.  The golf cart
> batteries
> > > >don't
> > > > >>>>>> fit anywhere.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> If you are worried about this, get an outboard with electric
> > > > >>>>>> start/generator.  If your battery runs out, you pull the
> >starter
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >> cord,
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>> start your motor, and it will provide you with enough
> >electricity
> > > >to
> > > > >>>>>> power your running lights.  That's all you need.  If it's
> > > daytime,
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >> you
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>> don't need any power at all.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> When a golf cart battery is dead a golf cart can't move.  Not
> >so
> > > a
> > > > >>>>>> sailboat.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Your car doesn't have 2 golf cart batteries wired in series.
> >Why
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >> not?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>> The biggest draw most of us put on our batteries is the
> stereo
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >> system.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>> I'm done.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Bill Effros
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Bob Fletcher wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> In his book "Sailboat Electonics Simplified" Don Casey has
> an
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>> extensive
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> discussin of battery types and configurations.  He seems to
> > > >endorse
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> option of two 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >> Apparently
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> they
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> are rugged and much more affordable than "dedicated" marine
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >> batteries.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>>> Bob Fletcher
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >>>>>>> From: "John Lock" <jlock at relevantarts.com>
> > > > >>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:32 AM
> > > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> At 11:57 AM 4/11/2007 -0400, CORLEYMICHAELSIX at aol.comwrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Got to buy new battery(s) for my 99 Rhodes.  It is set up
> >for
> > > >and
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>> had
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>> 2
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> batteries before I put it in storage.  Intending to buy
> deep
> > > >cycle
> > > > >>>>>>>>> wet  cells,
> > > > >>>>>>>>> debating weather to buy one Group 27 or 2 Group 24s or 2
> >Group
> > > > >>>>>>>>> 27s.   Have solar
> > > > >>>>>>>>> panels, VHF, digital depth gauge and knot meter,
> pull  start
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>> outboard.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> Need
> > > > >>>>>>>>> advice.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Strangely enough, I was just reading an article about
> >batteries
> > > >the
> > > > >>>>>>>> other day!  This article was written from an RV
> perspective,
> > > but
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >> I'm
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>>>> guessing our boat usage is pretty similar.  One very
> >intriguing
> > > > >>>>>>>> alternative was using 2, 6-volt golf cart batteries in
> series
> > > to
> > > > >>>>>>>> produce 12 volts.  Apparently golf cart batteries offer
> some
> >of
> > > >the
> > > > >>>>>>>> highest amp-hour ratings available.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> See article at
> > > > >>>>>>>> http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm   Scroll
> > > down
> > > >to
> > > > >>>>>>>> "Selecting batteries".
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Cheers!
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> John Lock
> > > > >>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > >>>>>>>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> > > > >>>>>>>> Lake Sinclair, GA
> > > > >>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > > > >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > > > >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > > > >>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> >_________________________________________________________________
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> > >
> >
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