[Rhodes22-list] Battteries

Sun Apr 15 11:29:27 EDT 2007

Well ...hopefully attachments get through. This is a second home. He also 
has a blueberry farm for second income. Located near Clinch Mountain about 
40 minutes from Knoxville.

! - pic of cabin, note solar panel lower left

2 -pic of inside showing wood burning stove

3 -pic of inside showing loft and kitchen. He has an on demand propane hot 
water system heating collected rainwater.

4 pic of me standing above wood burning hot tub...you can see chimney to my 
left. I wish I had a better shot of tub set up. There is a wooden grate that 
seperates fire box from soaking side of tub. It is pretty neat.

Wally

>From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
>Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 08:33:45 -0600
>
>Wally,
>
>I found the book in my library (thought it was in Gulfport).  "Living on 12
>Volts with Ample Power" by David Smith and Ruth Ishihara.  We just bought a
>1.7 acre commercial property for a permanent home for our business and had
>to jump through all kinds of hoops to get power.  Eventually we told zoning
>and the power company we were in the nursery business and have actually
>decided to follow up on our "joke" by actually doing it!  For a while it
>looked like we might have to live off grid ourselves.  Get a Northern Tool
>catalog or go to their site, NorthernTool.com to look at solar panels, wind
>generators, etc.  You can beat their prices on the web but it's a good one
>stop shopping point to start. We too have a need for a cistern system.  You
>have to go about 400 feet deep for good water and city water won't be
>available for a few more years.  When it does come we hope to be in on
>installing some of the pipe (our speciality).  In the meantime I 
>researching
>cistern systems to collect water off the two shop buildings (once the
>hurricane damaged roofs are replaced).
>
>The photo didn't come through.  I'm anxious to see your friends place.  It
>sounds nice.
>
>Brad
>
>On 4/15/07, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Brad,
> >
> > If I ever leave for extended cruising I will need to do some reading and
> > will look into the book you mention. I have 2 close friends (both sail)
> > who
> > have cabins/homes that are 100% solar and genrator powered. One buddy 
>has
> > been doing it for over 20 years. He has a small cabin in the foothills 
>he
> > uses as second home and commercial blueberry farm. Photo attached. He 
>has
> > sisterns for rainwater collection and propane for heat. He even has a 
>wood
> > fired hot tub.
> >
> > I also have another firiend who is married and has 2 kids. They are
> > totally
> > off the grid. The primary residence is 100% 12 volt. So I have some good
> > sources. Both swear by Trojan batteries. Room is not an issue so they 
>use
> > 12
> > volt. I don't know all of the details but it works well for them.
> >
> > Wally
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > >Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 07:57:58 -0600
> > >
> > >Wally,
> > >
> > >For a good read on the subject pick up a copy of "Living on 12 Volts" 
>by,
> > >um, I forget.  When we landed on the beach after Katrina we lived off 
>of
> > a
> > >generator and batteries for three months.  After moving inland we lived
> > off
> > >of batteries for another three months until electricity made it to our
> > >rented spot.  We bought two huge 12 volt marine batteries that ran an
> > >inverter for our computer and answering machine.  Eventually we figured
> > out
> > >how to live on about two hours of generator time per day.  There are 
>two
> > >schools of thought.  One is two hook up multible batteries in paralell 
>so
> > >you have more use time before you get to the crucial 50% discharge 
>stage.
> > >The other school says to alternate between batteries.  For my boat,
> > >alternating makes more sense so one is always in reserve for engine
> > >starting.
> > >
> > >Brad
> > >
> > >On 4/15/07, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bill,
> > > >
> > > > We are not reading the same sources...you mention you have done your
> > own
> > > > testing. Did you test golf cart batteries? If not I will stick with
> > >advice
> > > > of those that have.
> > > >
> > > > Wally
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > > >Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 17:52:37 -0300
> > > > >
> > > > >Wally,
> > > > >
> > > > >You're just picking fights without reading.
> > > > >
> > > > >Golf cart batteries make sense for golf carts.  They are a 
>different
> > > > >size and voltage than batteries used for other purposes.   Banding
> > them
> > > > >together and putting them into boats is ridiculous.
> > > > >
> > > > >Bill Effros
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >TN Rhodey wrote:
> > > > > > Bill, So you know better than the entire Golf industry? Maybe
> > green
> > > > fees
> > > > > > could be lowered if they knew what you knew.....I got to believe
> > the
> > > > >golf
> > > > > > course industry has not been duped. I suspect they pay the extra
> > >bucks
> > > > > > because there is a difference. In any case... I said in my 
>orignal
> > > > post
> > > > >for
> > > > > > my use they are not worth the cost. Wally
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > > > >> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > >> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > > > >> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:30:05 -0300
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Wally,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> They do make 12 volt Golf Cart Batteries.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Golf Cart Batteries are designed similarly to "Deep Cycle 
>Marine
> > > > > >> Batteries".
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Nobody uses the batteries on sailboats the same way golf carts
> > use
> > > > >their
> > > > > >> batteries--nor do we recharge them the same way for fear of
> > blowing
> > > > out
> > > > > >> the electrical circuits on our boats at the same time.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Trojan, 6 volt golf cart, and other high end batteries are not
> > >worth
> > > > >the
> > > > > >> extra cost to anybody with a Rhodes-22.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I read the same stuff you read.  It doesn't cost that much to
> > test
> > > > out
> > > > > >> the theories, and I did so for years.  I have been swapping out
> > > > > >> batteries of all different types and costs, and I have the
> > >electrical
> > > > > >> monitoring equipment on board to compare one battery set with
> > > > another.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The best batteries I have ever had in the boat are the Kirkland
> > > > > >> batteries that Stan originally installed.  They were better
> > > > > >> electrically, and obviously they cost less than the West 
>Marine,
> > >AGM,
> > > > >or
> > > > > >> any other brand or type I tried.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> 1 12 volt is more than enough.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> 2 is complete redundancy.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I have 2 -- at $50 each--so for $100 I have 0 electrical 
>anxiety
> > >for
> > > > 6
> > > > > >> years at a time.  Cheap at the price.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I never have to recharge my batteries using shore power.  I 
>burn
> > >less
> > > > > >> than 10 gallons of gas a year.  My batteries stay on board,
> > summer
> > > > and
> > > > > >> winter, hooked up and ready to go.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> My batteries are hooked up in parallel with no switch.  If one
> > >starts
> > > > >to
> > > > > >> fail, the other brings it back up.  A dead short on one will 
>not
> > > > short
> > > > > >> out the other.  (yes, I tried)
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Most of these world cruisers have more dollars than sense.  
>They
> > > > don't
> > > > > >> know what they're talking about 9/10s of the time.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Golf cart batteries on boats are just plain silly.  The
> > monstrously
> > > > > >> expensive boat batteries are not inherently more reliable than
> > > > > >> "ordinary" batteries.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> When R-22 newbies ask about batteries, the best advise to give
> > them
> > > > is
> > > > > >> to take what Stan provides.  2 is more than you'll ever need.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Bill Effros
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> Bill,
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Your post has several errors. I don't know enough about 
>battery
> > > > design
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> to
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> explain in detail. Golf Carts usage runs down the battery 
>almost
> > > > every
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> day.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> They are designed to run down to low levels and then quickly
> > > > >recharged.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> I am
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> not saying they are lighter or cheaper. I am saying they can 
>be
> > >run
> > > > >down
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> and
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> recharged (more times) and still live a long life. As you 
>point
> > >out
> > > > >they
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> are
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> expensive. There is a reason Golf Courses buy these expensive
> > > > >batteries
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> and
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> it is not just size. Most 12-volt batteries are not built to 
>the
> > > > same
> > > > > >>> specifications as 6-volt Golf Cart batteries. There are other
> > >types
> > > > of
> > > > >6
> > > > > >>> volts batteries (motorcycle, old VW) that are dirt-cheap. 
>There
> > is
> > >a
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> reason.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> The durability is why world cruisers like them. They may not 
>be
> > >able
> > > > >to
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> run
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> to Walmart when the battery dies. You ask why don't they make
> > > > 12-volt
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> Golf
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> Cart batteries? If they used the same technology they would be
> > too
> > > > big
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> and
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> heavy for Golf Cart. Many cruisers will tell you that Trojan
> > > > Batteries
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> (6
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> or12 volt) are the absolute best. They have a price tag quite 
>a
> > >bit
> > > > > >>> different then Walmart. They are hundreds per and they are not
> > >your
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> average
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> battery. My buddy has a solar powered cabin and he swears by
> > them.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> For my use the Walmart Marine batteries made sense. If I were
> > > > cruising
> > > > > >>> around the world I would have something different.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Wally
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > > > >>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list 
><rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > > > >>>> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:32:01 -0300
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Wally,
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> The benefits of 6 volt golf cart batteries don't apply to
> > >sailboats
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >> either.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>> 12 Volt batteries can be built to the same specifications, 
>and
> > >they
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >> are.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>> Why not just get a 12 volt golf cart battery instead of 2 6s
> > and
> > > > >avoid
> > > > > >>>> all the extra exposed wiring in a marine environment?
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Electric Golf carts can't put back the juice they use.  My 
>boat
> > >has
> > > > > >>>> never been externally charged--the electricity is self
> > sustaining
> > > > >with
> > > > > >>>> solar and engine.  And I use just as much electricity as I
> > want,
> > > > > >>>> whenever I want.  It's a no-brainer.  As soon as you start
> > really
> > > > > >>>> looking into golf cart batteries you smack your head --
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> They run $300 each!  Got to have 4 of them to replace $100
> > worth
> > >of
> > > > >12
> > > > > >>>> volts that will last for 5 years...
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> now I'm really done with this topic.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> bill effros
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Bill, You ask why don't cars have 2 6-volt batteries...   
>Cars
> > > > have
> > > > >a
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>> high
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>> output alternator. The benefits of 6 volt golf cart battery
> > >don't
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >> apply.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>>> Cars need high output for starting.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> If I had a live aboard I would consider using 6 volt
> > batteries.
> > > > The
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >> big
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>>> advantage to the golf cart battery is that they hold up much
> > > > better
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >> when
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>>> abused. They can be re-charged faster and last longer than 
>12
> > > > volts.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>> That is
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>> why cruisers love them.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Wally
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > > > >>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list 
><rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > >
> > > > > >>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > > > >>>>>> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:36:10 -0300
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Bob,
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Stay away from this complexity.  It's simply not needed in
> > our
> > > > >boats.
> > > > > >>>>>> Nobody runs out of power on our boats.  The golf cart
> > batteries
> > > > >don't
> > > > > >>>>>> fit anywhere.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> If you are worried about this, get an outboard with 
>electric
> > > > > >>>>>> start/generator.  If your battery runs out, you pull the
> > >starter
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >> cord,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>>>> start your motor, and it will provide you with enough
> > >electricity
> > > > >to
> > > > > >>>>>> power your running lights.  That's all you need.  If it's
> > > > daytime,
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >> you
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>>>> don't need any power at all.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> When a golf cart battery is dead a golf cart can't move.  
>Not
> > >so
> > > > a
> > > > > >>>>>> sailboat.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Your car doesn't have 2 golf cart batteries wired in 
>series.
> > >Why
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >> not?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>>>> The biggest draw most of us put on our batteries is the
> > stereo
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >> system.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>>>> I'm done.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Bill Effros
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Bob Fletcher wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> In his book "Sailboat Electonics Simplified" Don Casey has
> > an
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>> extensive
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> discussin of battery types and configurations.  He seems 
>to
> > > > >endorse
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> option of two 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series.
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >> Apparently
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> they
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> are rugged and much more affordable than "dedicated" 
>marine
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >> batteries.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>>>>> Bob Fletcher
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >>>>>>> From: "John Lock" <jlock at relevantarts.com>
> > > > > >>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:32 AM
> > > > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Battteries
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> At 11:57 AM 4/11/2007 -0400, 
>CORLEYMICHAELSIX at aol.comwrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Got to buy new battery(s) for my 99 Rhodes.  It is set 
>up
> > >for
> > > > >and
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>> had
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> 2
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> batteries before I put it in storage.  Intending to buy
> > deep
> > > > >cycle
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> wet  cells,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> debating weather to buy one Group 27 or 2 Group 24s or 2
> > >Group
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> 27s.   Have solar
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> panels, VHF, digital depth gauge and knot meter,
> > pull  start
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>> outboard.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Need
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> advice.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> Strangely enough, I was just reading an article about
> > >batteries
> > > > >the
> > > > > >>>>>>>> other day!  This article was written from an RV
> > perspective,
> > > > but
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> I'm
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> guessing our boat usage is pretty similar.  One very
> > >intriguing
> > > > > >>>>>>>> alternative was using 2, 6-volt golf cart batteries in
> > series
> > > > to
> > > > > >>>>>>>> produce 12 volts.  Apparently golf cart batteries offer
> > some
> > >of
> > > > >the
> > > > > >>>>>>>> highest amp-hour ratings available.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> See article at
> > > > > >>>>>>>> http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm   
>Scroll
> > > > down
> > > > >to
> > > > > >>>>>>>> "Selecting batteries".
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> Cheers!
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> John Lock
> > > > > >>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > > >>>>>>>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
> > > > > >>>>>>>> Lake Sinclair, GA
> > > > > >>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > > > > >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? 
>www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > > > > >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? 
>www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > > > > >>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > >_________________________________________________________________
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> > > >
> > >
> > 
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> > > > > >>
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> > > > > > 
>_________________________________________________________________
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