[Rhodes22-list] Rummy, was Retracting IMF

Slim stevenalm at comcast.net
Wed Feb 21 00:45:20 EST 2007 

Mary Lou,

Now I'm completely confused.  I don't understand why the outhaul would need
to go through the boom.

Rummy, can you post a picture of yours?  IIRC you have cam cleats on both
outhaul and reefing lines.

Slim

On 2/20/07 5:13 PM, "Mary Lou Troy" <mtroy at atlanticbb.net> wrote:

> Slim.
> Nope I meant the outhaul. Our reefing line is still on a horn cleat
> and frankly we don't have much trouble with that - perhaps because we
> are always double-handed. The out haul was more of a problem for us.
> The kit Stan sells includes the piece of UMPWUMP (I like that) for
> mounting the cleat. IIRC the kit include the cam cleat, the piece cut
> to fit the boom & the through boom fitting. We had to cut the hole in
> the boom and attach the UMPWUMP fitting with self tapping screws (I
> think Stan provided those too.)
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Mary Lou
> 
> 
> 
> At 04:41 PM 2/20/2007, you wrote:
>> Mary Lou,
>> 
>> Thanks, but don't you mean the reefing line?  The outhaul (blue line) looks
>> to be on top of your boom--same as mine.  Not that the outhaul couldn't have
>> a cam cleat too.  IIRC Rummy has both.
>> 
>> I didn't know Stan had a retrofit kit.  Rummy had to specially cut a piece
>> of  UMPWUMP (whatever it is)  to accommodate the curve of the boom to the
>> flat seat of the cleat.  What exactly did Stan send you?  Do you have any
>> more pictures?
>> 
>> Slim
>> 
>> On 2/20/07 7:15 AM, "Mary Lou Troy" <mtroy at atlanticbb.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Slim,
>>> A couple of years ago we bought Stan's retrofit kit for the through
>>> the boom/camcleat fittings for the outhaul. We like it a lot even
>>> though we still don't know if we installed it backwards. Plusses &
>>> minuses either way I think. In any event it makes adjusting the
>>> outhaul much quicker. You can just barely see it in this pic - you
>>> might need to squint. The outhaul goes through the boom (plastic
>>> fitting to protect the line) and cleats under the boom.
>>> 
>>> Mary Lou
>>> 
>>> At 01:50 AM 2/20/2007, you wrote:
>>>> Thanks, Bill, I'll put all this into practice and try to improve my
>>>> technique.  Also, I'd like to modify my boom and install cam
>> cleats instead
>>>> of horn cleats (like Rummy has) which makes everything faster.
>>>> 
>>>> Slim
>>>> 
>>>> On 2/19/07 5:39 PM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Slim,
>>>>> 
>>>>> OK, now we're on the same page.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Like you, the only time it's harder than easy for me is when the wind
>>>>> has picked up relative to the amount of main sail I have out, forcing me
>>>>> to let out the main to a point where the aft boom cleat can't be reached
>>>>> while standing on floor of the cockpit.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Part of your solution has been to cleat the lines on the mid boom cleat,
>>>>> however that forces you to leave the tiller.  I tried that approach, but
>>>>> have subsequently moved the lines back to the aft boom cleat.  I found
>>>>> it was dangerous to wrestle with the boom when it had too much sail on
>>>>> it, I wasn't holding onto the tiller, and I was leaning toward the
>>>>> leeward side of the boat.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If the lines are cleated aft, you are forced to bring the sail in over
>>>>> the cockpit (which, just incidentally, makes the sail furl on the tube
>>>>> more easily and more cleanly.)  The only ways you can bring the sail
>>>>> over the cockpit, if it is not already there, is by sailing higher into
>>>>> the wind, while coming about, or in a hove-to situation.  In that order.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If the boom is over the water and you want to reduce the main sail,
>>>>> first retract the genny so that it is around 100%.  No problem
>>>>> there--I'm sure you know how to do that without snarling the
>>>>> furler--(hint to newbies--keep tension on both lines.)  The main sail is
>>>>> 1/2 the size of the 175 genny, so this will significantly depower the
>>>>> boat, and may allow you to bring in the main over the cockpit depending
>>>>> on how far your mainsail must be adjusted.  If so, release the lines
>>>>> from the aft cleat and adjust at reduced speed on the same course.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you still can't pull in your main, steer higher into the wind until
>>>>> you can, and then fall off again after making the adjustment in
>>>>> relatively calm air.  If you steer too high, and wish to come about, you
>>>>> can catch the boom and make your adjustment while the boom remains on
>>>>> the favored side, usually Starboard, before releasing the genny sheet
>>>>> and completing the tack.   If you can't do this fast enough, or don't
>>>>> want to come about, don't release the genny sheet, which will
>>>>> automatically leave you hove-to.  Using the tiller you can get the boom
>>>>> anywhere you want it in calm air over the cockpit.  You will have as
>>>>> much time as you need to adjust the sail, tiller between legs, standing
>>>>> in the center of the cockpit, aft, approximately over the table socket.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You can sail out of being hove-to on either a port or starboard tack.
>>>>> Steer in the direction you wish to go.  Then release the genny, or not,
>>>>> depending on which tack you want to be on.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Slim wrote:
>>>>>> Just Plain Bill, et al,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Right--lengthening the sail is never a problem and I, too try to
>>>> put up less
>>>>>> sail than I need at first and add more later if I want.  But sometimes I
>>>>>> over estimate how much to use and other times the wind picks
>> up after I'm
>>>>>> out there, so shortening the main in the heat of battle is
>>>> something I want
>>>>>> to get better at.  It's especially tricky if I'm
>>>> single-handing.  And, like
>>>>>> you have said, even with others onboard I'm still
>> single-handing, although
>>>>>> someone to take the helm and hold our course is a big help and
>>>> not too hard
>>>>>> even for a novice.  I can always heave to in order to do
>> anything but I'd
>>>>>> like to get better at reefing quickly while still under
>>>> way.  Thanks for the
>>>>>> tip on moving the boom car before I haul in the reefing line.  I think
>>>>>> that'll help.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/18/07 10:46 AM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Slim,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I've read some of the replies.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> First, let's note you are only speaking of shortening the sail.  There
>>>>>>> is no problem lengthening it.  Just prior to tacking, you
>> simply release
>>>>>>> the line that prevents more sail from going out, to add the amount of
>>>>>>> sail you wish to add.  This will cause a huge belly in the sail.  Using
>>>>>>> the main sheet, cleat the sail so that it is above the cockpit on the
>>>>>>> starboard side of the boat (on most boats depending on the rotation of
>>>>>>> the IMF inside the mast).  Pause in your tack long enough to secure the
>>>>>>> longer sail in it's new position on the boom, adjusting for
>> the level of
>>>>>>> sail tightness.  Finish your tack, or not, depending on where you want
>>>>>>> to go.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> When shortening the sail you must release the line that holds the sail
>>>>>>> out, first.  Move the car on the boom to where you want the sail to be
>>>>>>> attached to the boom.  Again, this will cause the sail to belly out.
>>>>>>> Then pull the sail retrieval line to get the proper sail shape.
>>>>>>> Continue the tack, or not.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If it's really blowing you may have to heave to in order to keep the
>>>>>>> sail under control.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I always start with less sail than I think I will need and
>> then lengthen
>>>>>>> it.  I always heave to when retracting sail fully at the end of the day
>>>>>>> because if you learn to heave to, well, you can make the boat
>> point into
>>>>>>> the wind at any direction that makes retracting the sail work best on
>>>>>>> your boat with your sails.  Experience.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Slim wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> My, my, my... Aren't we a chatty bunch today?  Ninety-some emails!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Art brought up an important point about operating the IMF on a
>>>> port tack.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> do this too but only slightly off the wind for best
>> results.  I let the
>>>>>>>> main
>>>>>>>> sheet go so the sail is luffing and then it's a cinch to roll it up.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Here's where I could use some help:  If the wind picks up and
>>>> I decide to
>>>>>>>> shorten sail, I usually discover that I'm overpowered when on a close
>>>>>>>> reach.
>>>>>>>> That's when you get heeled over too much.  That's when the
>>>> wind has picked
>>>>>>>> up and there's a lot of force on the sail.  I've found it to be quite
>>>>>>>> difficult to reef in the mail on this point of sail even if
>> it is a port
>>>>>>>> tack and absolutely impossible on a starboard tack.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So what maneuvers or what point of sail would be best to make
>>>> this easier?
>>>>>>>> Must I luff up?  I don't like doing that because it's so chaotic and
>>>>>>>> sometimes I get blown over to the other tack anyway and the
>> problem gets
>>>>>>>> worse.  But if there's any wind in the sail at all then it's
>>>> much harder to
>>>>>>>> flatten out the sail because the lines are so stressed.  At least I've
>>>>>>>> finally learned to cleat off my control lines on the cleats
>>>> nearer the mast
>>>>>>>> and not the ones at the end of the boom where I can't always
>>>> reach them.  I
>>>>>>>> think I've answered my own question.  You gotta luff
>> up.  But has anyone
>>>>>>>> discovered a better procedure?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Reefing in the jib under these conditions is easier.  I
>>>> usually wait until
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> tack and then keep the jib sheet on the now-windward side
>> sort of like a
>>>>>>>> heave to, backwinding the main.  Then I can ease the sheet out
>>>> and take the
>>>>>>>> reefing line while the jib is still full of air.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> 
>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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>> 
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