[Rhodes22-list] Define: Lee Helm

Fri Mar 9 11:22:41 EST 2007

Lee Helm.  A tendancy for the boat to bear off.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 11:14 AM
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Define: Lee Helm

> Slim,
>
> How do you define "Lee Helm"?
>
> Bill Effros
>
> PS -- Far from beating this topic to death, (no pun intended, right?)
> this is what sailing is really about, and we don't discuss it enough.
> Every answer is helpful, and many have never been posted previously.
>
> Slim wrote:
> > I've been trying to resist jumping in on this thread because we can beat
it
> > to death, but I've played around a lot with different amounts of board
and
> > different amounts canvas and even of mast rake to try to eliminate the
> > characteristic lee helm of the Rhodes22 rigged with IMF and 175 and a
> > diamond board.  I've been able to make some improvements but mainly I've
> > settled for the fact that lee helm happens, but only in light air and I
can
> > cope with that.  I've found that I rarely drop the board all the way
down.
> > When I'm pointing, it's usually about 3/4 down.  I haven't found that
the
> > board all the way down moves the CLR forward since it doesn't improve my
lee
> > helm.  I also think the faster you go, the less board you need/want.
Even
> > with the board all the way up there's still a "shoal draft keel" of
sorts to
> > prevent leeway sliding, albeit not as effective.  Sometimes I pull it up
to
> > reduce heeling until I can reduce sail.  Sometimes I'm just lazy.  It's
> > always up when I'm going downwind.
> >
> > I'm a lover not a fighter.  Sorry, I mean I'm a cruiser not a racer, but
I
> > still want to get good performance from my boat.  Every boat's a little
> > different and every sailor has individual goals so it boils down to
> > experimentation and fine tuning, but most importantly it's the fun
factor
> > and the comfort factor--and you're the captain--so you get to decide.
> >
> > BTW, sailing faster on one tack over the other might be uneven shroud
> > tuning.
> >
> > Slim Chance and the Gamblers
> > Fandango '90 Rhodes22
> > Lake Minnetonka, MN
> >
> > On 3/8/07 8:41 AM, "KUHN, LELAND" <LKUHN at cnmc.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Bud,
> >>
> >> I've only sailed the Rhodes for a year, so I hope I'm not giving you
bad
> >> advice.
> >>
> >> If I want to point into the wind as much as possible, I'll put the
> >> centerboard all the way down.  I'll also use the traveler and inside
> >> leads to flatten the sails.  I've found that it's rare that I need that
> >> extra five degrees into the wind to get to where I want to go.
> >>
> >> The centerboard can be used as a depth finder, but even with the soft
> >> mud bottom of the Chesapeake, you never know what you're going to hit.
> >> At the very least it will knock off your bottom paint.
> >>
> >> The centerboard acts as a pivot point, allowing you to make sharper
> >> turns.  Don't really need it for tacking but could come in handy
> >> motoring around the marina.  The boat turns sharp enough for me without
> >> the board down.
> >>
> >> Depending on your point-of-sail, wind, waves, and current; the
> >> centerboard will help balance the boat and take pressure off the
tiller.
> >> I notice this really helps if I have too much sail out.  I usually
> >> adjust the sails to balance the boat.
> >>
> >> As a newbie, I constantly check my speed to see what works best in all
> >> conditions.  I have put the board up and down in every condition, and I
> >> am convinced that the drag from the centerboard will always slow you
> >> down.  In most cases, I believe the centerboard's ability to keep you
> >> sailing in a straight line doesn't make up for the decrease in speed.
I
> >> might be wrong on that last statement.
> >>
> >> In my limited experience, the centerboard is a tool that you rarely
need
> >> and will slow you down.  I guess what surprised me was that most boats
> >> sail fastest on a close reach, due to the opposing pressures from the
> >> sails and keel (squeezing a watermelon seed analogy).  On a close reach
> >> with a Rhodes, you will still go faster with the centerboard up.
> >>
> >> If it sounds like I know what I'm talking about, reread the first
> >> sentence. :)
> >>
> >> Lee
> >> 1986 Rhodes22  At Ease
> >> Crab Alley (Kent Island, MD)
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Peter Thorn [mailto:pthorn at nc.rr.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 6:18 AM
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] CenterBoard Angle
> >>
> >> Bud,
> >>
> >> I'll add my 2 cents, in short:  upwind all down, downwind all up.
> >>
> >> The Rhodes has a very light, balanced helm.  With a large (175)
headsail
> >> and
> >> smaller (not-newer vertical battened) main there can be a tendancy to
> >> leeward helm in light air.  As the boat heels when the breeze picks up
> >> this
> >> is mitigated.   So with the sailplan center of effort (CE) forward (the
> >> rig
> >> described above) the underwater fin's center of lateral resistance
> >> (CLR),
> >> which can be adjusted by the centerboard, also needs to be as forward
as
> >> possible.
> >>
> >> Another of the many advantages to having a centerboard is that you can
> >> change the CLR while underway by adjusting the board.  In heavier air,
> >> when
> >> you would expose less area on the headsail going to windward, you can
> >> balance by raising the centerboard just a little.
> >>
> >> PT
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Mary Lou Troy" <mtroy at atlanticbb.net>
> >> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:42 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] CenterBoard Angle
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Bud,
> >>> I think it's just about vertical. Unless you are sailing in a very
> >>> weedy area, I don't think having the pennant exposed is a problem.
> >>> It's just as likely to get fouled by growth in the slot. Our's seems
> >>> to stay cleaner the more we use it. We always pull the board up at
> >>> anchor or when we leave the boat in the slip but sailing upwind it is
> >>> always down as far as it will go. As Wally said, as we move off the
> >>> wind we start pulling the board up.
> >>>
> >>> Mary Lou
> >>> 1991 R22  Fretless
> >>> Rock Hall, MD
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> At 08:39 PM 3/7/2007, you wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks to all who responded!   Mary Lou - when you say all the way
> >>>> down, you mean the CB is nearly vertical?
> >>>> Do you run into any problems with the pennant line or sheaves
> >>>> exposed in that running configuration?
> >>>> I had thought the sheaves might get "gunked up" if they were exposed.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks again,
> >>>> Bud
> >>>>
> >>>> Mary Lou Troy wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Bud,
> >>>>> Fretless is a 1991. We usually sail with the board all the way
> >>>>> down. Exceptions are downwind or very shallow water.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mary Lou
> >>>>> 1991 R22  Fretless
> >>>>> Rock Hall, MD
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At 09:35 PM 3/6/2007, you wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Rummy,
> >>>>>>  I have a 1990 R22, and I am pretty sure I do not have a "diamond"
> >>>>>>
> >> board.
> >>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> -Bud
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Bud,
> >>>>>>> It depends on what year and centerboard design you have?
> >>>>>>> Rummy
> >>>>>>> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now
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> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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