[Rhodes22-list] 21st Century 'Ernie Pyle" - Brad come on now... +Herb... +Pete...
Brad Haslett
flybrad at gmail.com
Wed Apr 16 08:31:18 EDT 2008
Ed,
Just below the login button is a guest login - use that. The "lecture" is
about 25 minutes long and well worth the time. I have been a reader of
Col/Dr. Bay for a long time and respect his observations and analysis.
Brad
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:58 AM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net> wrote:
>
>
> Brad,
>
> All I get is a web site that requires sign in code...
>
> Herb,
>
> Your response to Pete draws a attention to the question of where should we
> go. War haters, Bush haters, use the issues as cover to advocate a
> Marxist
> slick talking candidate. Pete asked the question of why McCain.
>
> I am by no means a McCain supporter. Unfortunately, of the current three
> national candidates left, my answer to Pete is that he is the least of
> three
> evils. Hillary is a liar, dishonest. We can expect integrity of a
> candidate for President.
>
> Obama is shown to be a Marxist, and if he is not he is also a liar. He
> has
> shown little understanding of economics, world politics and as an unknown,
> told very little of what he would like to accomplish other than Marxist
> ideas.
>
> McCain is a maverick, unfortunately, picks as his favorite directions
> those
> issues which Washington insiders support. So far he has intimated that he
> will be independent of the past. The one issue that Bush haters take
> issue
> with is McCain's support for victory in Iraq.
>
> War and Bush haters allege that it is a civil war. It more correctly can
> be
> termed a religious pogrom by Islamist extremist. Why should the USA be
> involved in combating a Islamist extremist in a foreign place? There is
> more than one good reason. Start with the Twin Towers in NYC.
>
> If you live in Maine, Seattle or Key Largo, far from ground zero, what
> valid
> reason for the USA to fight Islamic extremists, 'because no one else
> will'.
> Just like Communism, Islamic extremist want to compel all to follow them.
> No room for other opinion. Terrorism is their tool for world domination.
>
> And then we have the fifth column in the USA, supporters of socialism, the
> Marxist dogma of world domination. The fellow travelers of Marxism openly
> attack Bush for attempting to fight another world domination political
> philosophy.
>
> Again, it is important to understand what Rev. Martin Niemöller was trying
> to say:
>
> In Germany they first came for the Communists
> and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
> Then they came for the Jews,
> and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
> Then they came for the trade unionists
> and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
> Then they came for the Catholics
> and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
> Then they came for me
> and by that time no one was left to speak up.
>
> --The Reverend Martin Niemöller, a pastor in the German Confessing Church
> who spent seven years in a concentration camp.
>
> Now it could be said that the above is also reason to criticize Bush and
> his
> policies. It is also fair to ask those critics for 'good reason' and not
> just emotional diatribe. Freedom for humankind is a frail concept. The
> Islamists want to take it away. The Socialist want to take it away. The
> American national news media wants to take it away.
>
> Pete the answer to your question is support freedom.
>
> Ed K
> Greenville, SC, USA
>
>
>
>
>
> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
> >
> > Robert,
> >
> > This just popped-up on my radar screen and is timely for our discussion.
> >
> > http://austinbay.thearenausa.com/insight/home.jsp
> >
> > I'll digest it tonight and begin anew tomorrow. I'm about a third of the
> > way
> > through Steven Coll's new book on the Bin Laden family (Coll is the
> > author
> > of "Ghost Wars" which is a better account of Afghanistan than
> > "Wilson")
> > and so far his rendition of Middle Eastern history is in line with
> > every
> > other account I've read (and yours).
> >
> > Good night and good reading!
> >
> > Brad
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Robert Skinner <
> robert at squirrelhaven.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Brad - Responses in line.
> >>
> >> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >> > Robert,
> >> > The last sentence says it all, "There is a recognition that we did
> not
> >> > understand the extent to which their culture made it difficult to
> move
> >> from
> >> > an authoritarian government to liberal democracy."
> >> >
> >> > Where shall we go now? The world is a small globe - fast airplanes
> >> make
> >> it
> >> > smaller. We as a nation are imperfect, but what nation is better?
> >> Where do
> >> > Chinese dissidents who fear for their lives for their involvement in
> >> > Tienanmen Square have to run? In what nation can Islam evolve to the
> >> more
> >> > enlightened passages of the Koran? If we as Americans don't believe
> in
> >> the
> >> > spirit of 1776, what hope do we hold for the rest of the world, most
> of
> >> > which envies our lifestyle and freedoms?
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> The Spirit of 1776 was based on 200 years of development
> >> from barely surviving colony to thriving society quite
> >> able to take care of itself, largely devoid of internal
> >> frictions and generally appreciative of diverse sources
> >> and expressions of knowledge.
> >>
> >> Not so Iraq.
> >>
> >> Iraq is an artificial compendium of tribal factions
> >> recently (70 years ago) pasted together to deliver oil to
> >> the European communities and later to a variety of
> >> industrial nations.
> >>
> >> So long as the oil flow was not tampered with, we had
> >> little care for the treatment of the quasi-nation's
> >> peoples. As OPEC grew in power, it became obvious that
> >> they could take their marbles and leave the game - a
> >> power shift not to be accepted.
> >>
> >> We propped up Saddam as long as he was singing our tune,
> >> but then he got too big for his britches, did the Kuwait
> >> thing, and we started looking for the way to edge him out
> >> of power.
> >>
> >> Bush Sr. figured that if he destroyed Saddam's army and
> >> credibility as a warrior, sanctions and popular pressure
> >> would force him out. Didn't work, of course, as Saddam
> >> was a canny dictator.
> >>
> >> One of our first major mistakes was to see Saddam in
> >> terms of western mores, and his people as yearning for
> >> Jeffersonian democracy.
> >>
> >> Etc., etc...
> >>
> >> The point is that we have persisted in trying to deal
> >> with Saddam, the Iraqis, and other Mid-east leaders as
> >> if they were westerners. It ain't so.
> >>
> >> And there are as many ways to express democracy as there
> >> are individuals. That is part of what democracy is
> >> about -- not all, but part.
> >>
> >> But this is the part that we are tripping over.
> >>
> >> We need to recognize that there is a lot of work to do
> >> to in preparing for our style of democracy. Even in
> >> our own country, there are many who do not understand
> >> or accept the responsibilities of democracy.
> >>
> >> Coercion and/or invasion and/or occupation are not
> >> effective tools in accomplishing this. Leadership by
> >> example -- doing the right thing -- is far more
> >> effective. Getting along with -- honoring the
> >> independence of -- our neighbors beats, "If you aren't
> >> with us, you are against us."
> >>
> >> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> > I'm all for realism, including the 'meat' of the article you
> >> referenced.
> >> > But, "where do we go now?"
> >> >
> >> > It's easy to focus on the Bush 43 failures and the difficulties of
> the
> >> Iraq
> >> > invasion. That's one small part of a larger problem. Solutions?
> >>
> >> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Do the right thing. Lead by example. Support emerging
> >> countries by helping them grow straight. Build consensus
> >> among the community of nations rather than saying, "I am
> >> the decider" to the rest of the world. Live smaller so
> >> we do not need to give away out treasure and finest to
> >> reap resources from the rest of the world.
> >>
> >> You have heard this before. I am required to minimize
> >> my footprint. My contribution.
> >>
> >> And when dealing with vandals (AKA terrorists) shoot
> >> straight and fast. No religion or politic that advocates
> >> murder of innocents has any validity. This ain't PC, it's
> >> basic to our survival.
> >>
> >> /Robert
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > Brad
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Robert Skinner <
> >> robert at squirrelhaven.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Brad,
> >> > >
> >> > > I am also pleased and proud of what our forces have
> >> > > accomplished, and moreover, how they have done so.
> >> > > We have put our finest in harms way, and they have
> >> > > conducted themselves like ladies and gentlemen. The
> >> > > lapses from the highest standards of behavior that
> >> > > we could ask for are all the more noteable for their
> >> > > scarcity. Yon's work is promising.
> >> > >
> >> > > I have had no argument with the boots on the ground,
> >> > > unless they have Blackwater insignia.
> >> > >
> >> > > That said, I have had and continue to have
> >> > > reservations about the floating definitions of the
> >> > > mission(s) that our armed forces have been tasked
> >> > > with.
> >> > >
> >> > > I firmly believe that the form of democracy that
> >> > > grew in the United States requires a couple of
> >> > > centuries of substrate civilization and tolerance
> >> > > to grow and find its full expression.
> >> > >
> >> > > The way in which the free Iraqi codify their use of
> >> > > that freedom will inevitably be different than the US
> >> > > Constitution. For example, it is perfectly
> >> > > reasonable for them to decide to break up what was an
> >> > > artificial joining of disparate ethologies. In any
> >> > > case, it is their country, and they must be free to
> >> > > evolve or reshape it as necessary.
> >> > >
> >> > > The following article, despite its origin on the left
> >> > > coast, has some meat, as it shows an evolving realism
> >> > > among the military leaders as they negotiate their
> >> > > way through the minefield of manifold mission
> >> > > statements from Bush 43.
> >> > >
> >> > > It is short, and not so much political as an
> >> > > interesting glimpse of the current military thinking
> >> > > about the situation in Iraq.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >>
> http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-petraeus13apr13,1,6444719.story
> >> > >
> >> > > /Robert
> >> > > -----------------------------------------------------
> >> > > Brad Haslett wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Michael Yon is at 17 on the list at Amazon today and rising fast
> >> (up
> >> 250
> >> > > in
> >> > > > one week and it hasn't been released yet!). Trust me, this is
> not
> >> > > > propaganda. Whatever you think of 43 or the war in Iraq, you at
> >> least
> >> > > > should read about the experience and professionalism of our
> troops
> >> and
> >> > > > especially the Marines. The photo on the book cover still brings
> >> tears
> >> > > to
> >> > > > my eyes every time I see it (the story behind the photo is sad).
> >> Yon
> >> was
> >> > > > banned for awhile by the military for 'calling the shots as he
> saw
> >> them'
> >> > > and
> >> > > > is as impartial a witness as one can find for this national
> >> experience.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Brad
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0980076323?ie=UTF8&tag=wwwviolentkicom&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0980076323
> >> > > > __________________________________________________
> >> > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Robert Skinner "Squirrel Haven"
> >> > > Gorham, Maine 04038-1331
> >> > > s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."
> >> > > __________________________________________________
> >> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> > >
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >> --
> >> Robert Skinner "Squirrel Haven"
> >> Gorham, Maine 04038-1331
> >> s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
>
> --
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> http://www.nabble.com/21st-Century-%27Ernie-Pyle%22-tp16706806p16721250.html
> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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