[Rhodes22-list] 21st Century 'Ernie Pyle" - Brad come on now... +Herb... +Pete...
Tootle
ekroposki at charter.net
Wed Apr 16 07:58:18 EDT 2008
Brad,
All I get is a web site that requires sign in code...
Herb,
Your response to Pete draws a attention to the question of where should we
go. War haters, Bush haters, use the issues as cover to advocate a Marxist
slick talking candidate. Pete asked the question of why McCain.
I am by no means a McCain supporter. Unfortunately, of the current three
national candidates left, my answer to Pete is that he is the least of three
evils. Hillary is a liar, dishonest. We can expect integrity of a
candidate for President.
Obama is shown to be a Marxist, and if he is not he is also a liar. He has
shown little understanding of economics, world politics and as an unknown,
told very little of what he would like to accomplish other than Marxist
ideas.
McCain is a maverick, unfortunately, picks as his favorite directions those
issues which Washington insiders support. So far he has intimated that he
will be independent of the past. The one issue that Bush haters take issue
with is McCain’s support for victory in Iraq.
War and Bush haters allege that it is a civil war. It more correctly can be
termed a religious pogrom by Islamist extremist. Why should the USA be
involved in combating a Islamist extremist in a foreign place? There is
more than one good reason. Start with the Twin Towers in NYC.
If you live in Maine, Seattle or Key Largo, far from ground zero, what valid
reason for the USA to fight Islamic extremists, ‘because no one else will’.
Just like Communism, Islamic extremist want to compel all to follow them.
No room for other opinion. Terrorism is their tool for world domination.
And then we have the fifth column in the USA, supporters of socialism, the
Marxist dogma of world domination. The fellow travelers of Marxism openly
attack Bush for attempting to fight another world domination political
philosophy.
Again, it is important to understand what Rev. Martin Niemöller was trying
to say:
In Germany they first came for the Communists
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
--The Reverend Martin Niemöller, a pastor in the German Confessing Church
who spent seven years in a concentration camp.
Now it could be said that the above is also reason to criticize Bush and his
policies. It is also fair to ask those critics for ‘good reason’ and not
just emotional diatribe. Freedom for humankind is a frail concept. The
Islamists want to take it away. The Socialist want to take it away. The
American national news media wants to take it away.
Pete the answer to your question is support freedom.
Ed K
Greenville, SC, USA
Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
>
> Robert,
>
> This just popped-up on my radar screen and is timely for our discussion.
>
> http://austinbay.thearenausa.com/insight/home.jsp
>
> I'll digest it tonight and begin anew tomorrow. I'm about a third of the
> way
> through Steven Coll's new book on the Bin Laden family (Coll is the
> author
> of "Ghost Wars" which is a better account of Afghanistan than
> "Wilson")
> and so far his rendition of Middle Eastern history is in line with
> every
> other account I've read (and yours).
>
> Good night and good reading!
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Robert Skinner <robert at squirrelhaven.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Brad - Responses in line.
>>
>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>> > Robert,
>> > The last sentence says it all, "There is a recognition that we did not
>> > understand the extent to which their culture made it difficult to move
>> from
>> > an authoritarian government to liberal democracy."
>> >
>> > Where shall we go now? The world is a small globe - fast airplanes
>> make
>> it
>> > smaller. We as a nation are imperfect, but what nation is better?
>> Where do
>> > Chinese dissidents who fear for their lives for their involvement in
>> > Tienanmen Square have to run? In what nation can Islam evolve to the
>> more
>> > enlightened passages of the Koran? If we as Americans don't believe in
>> the
>> > spirit of 1776, what hope do we hold for the rest of the world, most of
>> > which envies our lifestyle and freedoms?
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> The Spirit of 1776 was based on 200 years of development
>> from barely surviving colony to thriving society quite
>> able to take care of itself, largely devoid of internal
>> frictions and generally appreciative of diverse sources
>> and expressions of knowledge.
>>
>> Not so Iraq.
>>
>> Iraq is an artificial compendium of tribal factions
>> recently (70 years ago) pasted together to deliver oil to
>> the European communities and later to a variety of
>> industrial nations.
>>
>> So long as the oil flow was not tampered with, we had
>> little care for the treatment of the quasi-nation's
>> peoples. As OPEC grew in power, it became obvious that
>> they could take their marbles and leave the game - a
>> power shift not to be accepted.
>>
>> We propped up Saddam as long as he was singing our tune,
>> but then he got too big for his britches, did the Kuwait
>> thing, and we started looking for the way to edge him out
>> of power.
>>
>> Bush Sr. figured that if he destroyed Saddam's army and
>> credibility as a warrior, sanctions and popular pressure
>> would force him out. Didn't work, of course, as Saddam
>> was a canny dictator.
>>
>> One of our first major mistakes was to see Saddam in
>> terms of western mores, and his people as yearning for
>> Jeffersonian democracy.
>>
>> Etc., etc...
>>
>> The point is that we have persisted in trying to deal
>> with Saddam, the Iraqis, and other Mid-east leaders as
>> if they were westerners. It ain't so.
>>
>> And there are as many ways to express democracy as there
>> are individuals. That is part of what democracy is
>> about -- not all, but part.
>>
>> But this is the part that we are tripping over.
>>
>> We need to recognize that there is a lot of work to do
>> to in preparing for our style of democracy. Even in
>> our own country, there are many who do not understand
>> or accept the responsibilities of democracy.
>>
>> Coercion and/or invasion and/or occupation are not
>> effective tools in accomplishing this. Leadership by
>> example -- doing the right thing -- is far more
>> effective. Getting along with -- honoring the
>> independence of -- our neighbors beats, "If you aren't
>> with us, you are against us."
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> > I'm all for realism, including the 'meat' of the article you
>> referenced.
>> > But, "where do we go now?"
>> >
>> > It's easy to focus on the Bush 43 failures and the difficulties of the
>> Iraq
>> > invasion. That's one small part of a larger problem. Solutions?
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Do the right thing. Lead by example. Support emerging
>> countries by helping them grow straight. Build consensus
>> among the community of nations rather than saying, "I am
>> the decider" to the rest of the world. Live smaller so
>> we do not need to give away out treasure and finest to
>> reap resources from the rest of the world.
>>
>> You have heard this before. I am required to minimize
>> my footprint. My contribution.
>>
>> And when dealing with vandals (AKA terrorists) shoot
>> straight and fast. No religion or politic that advocates
>> murder of innocents has any validity. This ain't PC, it's
>> basic to our survival.
>>
>> /Robert
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Brad
>> >
>> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Robert Skinner <
>> robert at squirrelhaven.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Brad,
>> > >
>> > > I am also pleased and proud of what our forces have
>> > > accomplished, and moreover, how they have done so.
>> > > We have put our finest in harms way, and they have
>> > > conducted themselves like ladies and gentlemen. The
>> > > lapses from the highest standards of behavior that
>> > > we could ask for are all the more noteable for their
>> > > scarcity. Yon's work is promising.
>> > >
>> > > I have had no argument with the boots on the ground,
>> > > unless they have Blackwater insignia.
>> > >
>> > > That said, I have had and continue to have
>> > > reservations about the floating definitions of the
>> > > mission(s) that our armed forces have been tasked
>> > > with.
>> > >
>> > > I firmly believe that the form of democracy that
>> > > grew in the United States requires a couple of
>> > > centuries of substrate civilization and tolerance
>> > > to grow and find its full expression.
>> > >
>> > > The way in which the free Iraqi codify their use of
>> > > that freedom will inevitably be different than the US
>> > > Constitution. For example, it is perfectly
>> > > reasonable for them to decide to break up what was an
>> > > artificial joining of disparate ethologies. In any
>> > > case, it is their country, and they must be free to
>> > > evolve or reshape it as necessary.
>> > >
>> > > The following article, despite its origin on the left
>> > > coast, has some meat, as it shows an evolving realism
>> > > among the military leaders as they negotiate their
>> > > way through the minefield of manifold mission
>> > > statements from Bush 43.
>> > >
>> > > It is short, and not so much political as an
>> > > interesting glimpse of the current military thinking
>> > > about the situation in Iraq.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-petraeus13apr13,1,6444719.story
>> > >
>> > > /Robert
>> > > -----------------------------------------------------
>> > > Brad Haslett wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Michael Yon is at 17 on the list at Amazon today and rising fast
>> (up
>> 250
>> > > in
>> > > > one week and it hasn't been released yet!). Trust me, this is not
>> > > > propaganda. Whatever you think of 43 or the war in Iraq, you at
>> least
>> > > > should read about the experience and professionalism of our troops
>> and
>> > > > especially the Marines. The photo on the book cover still brings
>> tears
>> > > to
>> > > > my eyes every time I see it (the story behind the photo is sad).
>> Yon
>> was
>> > > > banned for awhile by the military for 'calling the shots as he saw
>> them'
>> > > and
>> > > > is as impartial a witness as one can find for this national
>> experience.
>> > > >
>> > > > Brad
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0980076323?ie=UTF8&tag=wwwviolentkicom&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0980076323
>> > > > __________________________________________________
>> > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Robert Skinner "Squirrel Haven"
>> > > Gorham, Maine 04038-1331
>> > > s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."
>> > > __________________________________________________
>> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>> > >
>> > __________________________________________________
>> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>> --
>> Robert Skinner "Squirrel Haven"
>> Gorham, Maine 04038-1331
>> s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."
>> __________________________________________________
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>
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