[Rhodes22-list] Michael Meltzer & Herb - Masthead lights (anchor & steaming) - Question and clar
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Thu Apr 17 13:47:15 EDT 2008
Wow, that didn't format very well - so much for cutting and pasting.
I probably should also say, if someone wants to get REALLY picky, even
the web site I provided aren't the official regs. They're a copy, and an
attempt is made to be accurate, but even that site says:
"Those seeking official versions of the Navigation Rules should refer to
the International Navigational Rules Act of 1977 (Public Law 95-75, 91
Stat. 308, or 33 U.S.C. 1601-1608), and, the Inland Navigation Rules Act
of 1980 (Public Law 96-591, 94 Stat. 3415, 33 U.S.C. 2001-2038)."
The interpretation from just another internet guy is this - that's the
printed version.
Herb Parsons wrote:
> Yes Michael, it's an official web site. But it's NOT the regs. Take the
> test, trust me, they don't ask any questions about what's on the web
> site. They ask specific questions about the regulations, and the source
> is the printed manual, not their website.
>
> Here's an example: The web site says that "If your power-driven vessel
> is less than 65.5 feet/20 meters in length, then it must display
> navigation lights per Figure 1." Figure 1 then shows a picture of a
> sailboat and a powerboat. The sailboat has a steaming light mounted on
> the very top of the mast. That's OK, but that's NOT what the regs say.
>
> What the regs say specifically are:
> RULE 23:
> POWER-DRIVEN VESSELS UNDERWAY
>
> (a) A power-driven vessel <../pops/def3b_PDV.htm> underway shall
> exhibit (picture <../pops/nr_23a.htm>):
>
> 1. a masthead light <../pops/def21a_masthead.htm> forward;
> 2. a second masthead light abaft of and higher than the forward
> one; except that a vessel of less than 50 meters
> <../pops/nr_23aii.htm> in length shall not be obliged to
> exhibit such a light but may do so;
> 3. sidelights <../pops/def21b_side.htm>: and
> 4. a sternlight <../pops/def21c_stern.htm>.
>
>
> But that's not the end of the story, there are the different size
> exceptions (which the website you mentioned have included in its recap);
> but, you must know the definition of some of these terms. For instance
> "masthead light":
>
> =====
>
>
> Rule 21 - Definitions
>
> 1.
> "Masthead light" means a white light placed over the fore and aft
> centerline of the vessel showing an unbroken light over an arc of
> the horizon of 225 degrees and so fixed as to show the light from
> right ahead to 22.5 degrees abaft the beam on either side of the
> vessel, /except that on a vessel of less than 12 meters in length
> the masthead light shall be placed as nearly as practicable to the
> fore and aft centerline of the vessel./
>
> =====
>
> (which, by the way, means my memory was wrong, it wasn't 270 degrees, it
> was 225, my test was a long time ago). It does NOT have to be on the top
> of the mast as pictured, it can be anywhere on the boat, as long as it
> fits the above definition.
>
> The picture given in the web site your provided just makes it easier to
> understand the jargon of the office regs. It may be an official web
> site, but it's NOT the official regs. It's a recap of them.
>
> The office regs can be found here -
> http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm. They're harder
> to understand, but much more specific.
>
> Your statement about "some guy on the internet" is the same as mine;
> however, the site you gave isn't the "primary", it's better than a guy
> on the internet, but it's still not the regs.
>
> Wouldn't I hate it if some bozo took that picture and told me that my
> steaming light that's not mounted on the top of the mast is not legal
> because the website shows a picture of the masthead light on top of the
> mast, and mine is about a few feet down from the top (as are most small
> boat masthead lights)?
>
> That's what I meant, it's a recap. Better than advice from me, but still
> not the official regs.
>
>
>
> Michael D. Weisner wrote:
>
>> Herb,
>>
>> What exactly do you mean by your comment: "it's still a recap of the
>> 'official regs'"? USCGBoating.org is an official CG site (Registrant:US
>> Coast Guard, Office of Boating Safety) and it contains the federal and state
>> regs. In addition, it contains illustrations that graphically represent the
>> regs that have been reviewed by the CG. It is most certainly better than
>> "some guy on the internet."
>>
>> Whenever possible, I appreciate a "primary" information source.
>>
>> Mike
>> s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>
>> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008
>> 3:31 PM
>>
>>
>>> Gotcha. However, you DO realize that's not the regs. It's a better
>>> source for an interpretation of the regs than "some guy on the
>>> internet", but it's still a recap of the "official regs".
>>>
>>> Michael D. Weisner wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Herb,
>>>>
>>>> It isn't that you stated anything wrong, it is simply the original USCG
>>>> source of the information in a somewhat easier to read and understand
>>>> format
>>>> (including pictures.)
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
>>>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>>>
>>>> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>Sent: Wednesday, April 16,
>>>> 2008
>>>> 2:12 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What part of that did I state incorrectly? Looks like the page (which is
>>>>> a recap of the original regs) says different than what I stated?
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael D. Weisner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Herb, Bob, etc.,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please read rules on USCG site:
>>>>>> http://www.uscgboating.org/SAFETY/fedreqs/equ_nav.htm
>>>>>> This page is very easy to read and understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
>>>>>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>Sent: Tuesday, April 15,
>>>>>> 2008
>>>>>> 10:41 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry Bob, but I think you mis-read the regs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A sailboat under power is a powerboat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A powerboat between 12 meters and 20 meters has to display a separate
>>>>>>> stern light (90 degrees, 45 degrees each direction) and steaming light
>>>>>>> (270 degrees, 135 each direction)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A sailboat between 7 meters and 20 meters can use a single 360 degree
>>>>>>> light as a combination steaming/stern light.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A sailboat under 7 meters (the Rhodes 22 fits that) can use a
>>>>>>> flashlight
>>>>>>> shining on the sail as your steaming light, but how un-cool is THAT?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, if it's under power, it's a powerboat. If it's a powerboat,
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> has to have a steaming light.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob Keller wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ed,
>>>>>>>> I think the 360 as an anchor light is required but the 360 as a
>>>>>>>> steaming
>>>>>>>> light is optional/overkill. The R-22 only needs the port, starboard
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> stern lights while underway, doesn't need anything on the mast...
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> CG
>>>>>>>> link confirmed that. Of course, the rules might be different on Lake
>>>>>>>> Hartwell since even Y-valves are not allowed there.
>>>>>>>> Bob K
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 04:38:02 -0700> From: ekroposki at charter.net>
>>>>>>>>> To:
>>>>>>>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Michael Meltzer
>>>>>>>>> &
>>>>>>>>> Herb - Masthead lights (anchor & steaming) - Question and
>>>>>>>>> clarification>
>>>>>>>>> > > Bob Keller and Dana...> > Michael Meltzer is our resident
>>>>>>>>> expert
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> what is legal regarding lights. > So 'USCG Captain' Meltzer what are
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> correct answers to Bob and Dana's> questions?> > This much I know,
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> lighting pattern is different for different length> boats. Why? so
>>>>>>>>> knowledgeable 'Captains' can tell what kind of boat it is. > Herb,
>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>> that a question for the 'Captain's' exam.> > As to Anchor light
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> visible on a 22 foot boat for 360 degrees, I do not> think that it
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> to be a single light. On the R22 there is a light on the> 'stern'
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> added to the light up the mast, together they qualify as 360>
>>>>>>>>> degrees
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> white light. Is that how the R22 is legal? I suspect that Stan> just
>>>>>>>>> might know what qualifies as legal lights.> > Now Bob K. has
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> t
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> o find out if his 360 degrees of masthead light on a 22 foot> boat
>>>>>>>> screws up the Coast Guard's intent in lighting( I already know the>
>>>>>>>> correct answer, but does he?). The Coast Guard does publish a small
>>>>>>>> booklet> on lighting, just do not know where my copy is quickly.
>>>>>>>> Also,
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> believe> these questions are answered in 'Chapman's'. When I find my
>>>>>>>> copies, I will> seek yea answers. This is comes up every so often on
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> forum so the> answers are probably in the archives. > > Ed K>
>>>>>>>> Greenville,
>>>>>>>> SC, USA> attachment for Slim:> >
>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16656988/approve.gif approve.gif > > > >
>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>> there, I bought an 87 R22 last year and absolutely love it. I'm>
>>>>>>>> currently working on getting it ready for the season. The mast is
>>>>>>>> wired
>>>>>>>> for> an anchor light, but whatever was there must have busted off
>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>> I got> the boat. There is also a light fixture facing forward about a
>>>>>>>> foot from> the top of the mast, but it wasn't working last year
>>>>>>>> either.>
>>>>>>>> > I have two questions:> > 1. The an
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> or light and steaming are separate lights, right? My> understanding
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> that an anchor light has to be visible from all directions,> and the
>>>>>>>> steaming light is the light facing forward that must be on when>
>>>>>>>> motoring.> > 2. Any recommendations on new lighting? Is there a
>>>>>>>> combined
>>>>>>>> LED light that> will serve both purposes?> > Thanks,> Dana> > > >
>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16656988/approve.gif approve.gif > -- >
>>>>>>>> View
>>>>>>>> this message in context:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Masthead-lights-%28anchor---steaming%29-tp16655218p16656988.html>
>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.> >
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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