[Rhodes22-list] U.S. medical system leading cause of death - comment to Peter

Thu Apr 24 14:27:24 EDT 2008

Mike,

Did you really just say this? -

Please do not confuse what is written on the Internet with fact.  One must verify, corroborate and validate the materials.

I stand amazed.

Sorry, just couldn't help putting in a little dig...

Michael D. Weisner wrote:
> Rik,
>
> On the contrary, somebody is very good with statistics.  According to Mark Twain, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."  Please do not confuse what is written on the Internet with fact.  One must verify, corroborate and validate the materials.
>
> Without taking sides on this issue since I am involved in the US system of medical care, I am moved to investigate further before dismissing the material.
>
> Mike
> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> Nissequogue River, NY
>
> From: "Rik Sandberg" <sanderico1 at gmail.com>Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:59 AM
>   
>> Perhaps we need to consider who is putting these statistics out here for 
>> us. Looks like most of these folks would like to sell us some 
>> nutritional supplements. I am not a fan of doctors and pills. I avoid 
>> them like the plague. I have also seen though, that the BS the 
>> nutritional supplement industry slings around gets pretty fantastic. 
>> While I do believe that nutritional supplements are less likely to do 
>> you harm than pharmaceuticals, chances are, they won't live up to the 
>> miracle claims made about them either.
>>
>> One article has heart disease deaths at 910,000 annually. Another says 
>> 700,000. Quite a spread. Somebody isn't very good at statistics.
>>
>> Rik
>>
>> "Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg
>>
>>
>>
>> petelargo wrote:
>>     
>>> No sir. You are absolutely 100% incorrect. This is based on statistical
>>> evidence. I won't do your research for you. Just google 'us medical system
>>> number one cause of deaths'.  It's a tough pill to swallow. (pun intended). 
>>>
>>> "New information has been presented showing the degree to which Americans
>>> have been subjected to injury and death by medical errors. The results of
>>> seven years of research reviewing thousands of studies conducted by the NIA
>>> now show that medical errors are the number one cause of death and injury in
>>> the United States. According to the NIA's report, over 784,000 people die
>>> annually due to medical mistakes. Comparatively, the 2001 annual death rate
>>> for heart disease was 699,697 and the annual death rate for cancer was
>>> 553,251."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> Peter,
>>>>
>>>> When making such statements, please post citations and references.  
>>>>
>>>> I would suggest that your citations will come from the media which goes
>>>> out of its way to cause controversy to drum up business.
>>>>
>>>> Medical mistakes do occur, but having spent many years in several
>>>> hospitals; I would say your statement is not accurate.  Especially when
>>>> compared to medical care around the world.  Yes, I have personally
>>>> inspected health care in a 3rd world country.
>>>>
>>>> I would rather suggest that you consider that people doing ‘stupid’ things
>>>> is the leading cause of death.  That would include reckless driving, no
>>>> life preservers while boating, smoking, excessive alcohol, excessive and
>>>> recreational drugs, suicide, believing the national media that the world
>>>> is ending, believing the national media that all is negative...
>>>>
>>>> Again, like many others, the national media has created a herd sheep
>>>> mentality...  Remember, that man was not created to live forever.  That
>>>> disease and pestilence are our lot.  Take each hour given you, do your
>>>> best and enjoy it.
>>>>
>>>> In the meantime, remember that physicians use available science to fix a
>>>> problem and get people going a few hours longer.  They are not ‘God’.  
>>>>
>>>> However, they can be stifled by bureaucratic controlled systems.  They can
>>>> be stifled by socialism.  Socialism kills human initiative.  Doctors are
>>>> only human, and their initiative and imagination can be debilitated
>>>> fighting socialistic controlled systems.
>>>>
>>>> Ed K
>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>> “Every great advancement in science has issued from a new audacity of
>>>> imagination.” John Dewey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> petelargo wrote:
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> Thanks for your post. You will see plenty scare tactic e-mails and 'BOO'
>>>>> blogs on this in the upcoming months. Most will be nonsense.  By what
>>>>> measure is the current health care system so great if right now the
>>>>> health care system itself in the united states is the leading cause of
>>>>> death? Somethings wrong and I mean big time.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynn Hoffman wrote:
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>>>> I noticed in one of the recent diatribes, a letter from someone who
>>>>>> claimed
>>>>>> that socialism killed his parents. There's a lot to be said about 
>>>>>> that letter, but
>>>>>> I think I'll just comment on the claim that there are only three 
>>>>>> oncologists in Montreal.
>>>>>> Unfortunately, I've come to know a little bit about oncologists and
>>>>>> where to
>>>>>> find 'em. Here's the medical roster of the oncology department at one 
>>>>>> hospital there. (McGill)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr Gerald Batist - Chair
>>>>>> Penny Chipman, Manager, Clinical Research Program
>>>>>> Fran Ezzy-Jorgensen, Administrative Officer, Department of Oncology
>>>>>> Dr Eduardo Franco - Cancer Division of Epidemiology
>>>>>> Dr Carolyn Freeman - Division of Radiation Oncology
>>>>>> Dr. Thomas Jagoe - Cancer Nutrition-Rehabilitation Program
>>>>>> Dr Petr Kavan - Adolescent and Young Adult Oncology Program
>>>>>> Dr Carmen Loiselle - Oncology Nursing
>>>>>> Dr Richard Margolese - Oncology Department, JGH
>>>>>> Dr Catalin Mihalcioiu - Division of Medical Oncology
>>>>>> Dr Wilson Miller - Clinical Research Program
>>>>>> Dr Lawrence Panasci - Division of Medical Oncology
>>>>>> Dr Michael Pollack - Cancer Prevention Program
>>>>>> Dr Jaroslav Prchal - Community Oncology Program
>>>>>> Dr Zeev Rosberger - Psychosocial Oncology Program
>>>>>> Dr Jeremy Sturgeon - Oncology Department, MUHC
>>>>>> Dr Simon Tanguay - Prostate Cancer Program
>>>>>> Dr Marc Tischkowitz - Cancer Genetics Program
>>>>>> Dr Anna Towers - Palliative Care
>>>>>> Dr Michel Tremblay - Basic Cancer Research
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the guy who wrote that is a patent liar. The sad thing is that 
>>>>>> many people will read that and remember something about how 
>>>>>> 'socialized medicine killed somebody and ain't it a shame?' The good 
>>>>>> news is that this crap is the best they got and maybe we'll get 
>>>>>> somewhere with health care when people know the facts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>    
>>>>>> Lynn Hoffman is the author of bang BANG, a novel about a woman who 
>>>>>> uses some unusual weapons to tackle the gun culture in Philadelphia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He is also the author of  The New Short Course in Wine from
>>>>>> PrenticeHall.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More? want to read rave reviews? an excerpt?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.kunati.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can read more and order a copy of bang-BANG from:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1601640005
>>>>>>
>>>>>> or from your local bookseller.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're looking for great wines for less than $US20, get the latest 
>>>>>> finds at http://shortcourseinwine.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>             
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>   
>>>       
>> __________________________________________________
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