[Rhodes22-list] political philosophy- "moral equivalence" (There is no fundamental right or wrong?)
Ben Cittadino
bcittadino at dcs-law.com
Tue Dec 16 18:57:49 EST 2008
Herb;
Through all your "wailing and gnashing of teeth" you made an important
admission. You said, it's an employers right to fire someone for the reason
of "not liking their politics". I disagree.
What are the odds that you will reply to this post? Will I get the last
word?
Ben C.
hparsons wrote:
>
> And Ben, I will repeat.
>
> It's not evil.
>
> It may be stupid
>
> It may be a goofy thing to do (which was why it was a JOKE).
>
> But it's not evil
>
> I believe it was you (but very well could have been someone else), who
> asked if I would quit by job if they sold bumper stickers that made
> jokes about shooting Obama. I said I would. It's a bumper sticker
> sellers right to sell anything they want, and it's my right to not
> purchase from them if I'm a shopper, and not work for them if I'm a buyer.
>
> Similarly, it's an employer's right to fire someone for just about
> anything, including not liking their politics. Again, just some I'm
> clear, It would be stupid, and it would be goofy, and I don't think a
> person doing so would be successful in the long run.
>
> But it's not evil.
>
> As for me calling your nonsense "shit", it is. You've chosen to make
> this a personal attack on both Bill, and now myself. You've totally
> mis-characterized what I wrote to fit your neat little (false) bundle,
> and yes, I find that offensive.
>
> Futher, you accuse me of being "dishonest about the subject" when in
> fact I've remained consistent in what I've said (unlike you're "fuuqa
> bs"), and then after accusing me of such, say you're done.
>
> I suspect you are.; You've been revealed for what you are, pretty
> consistently, and I have no doubt you want no more of it. Go take your
> hypocrisy and attacks elsewhere if you wish, I'm sure the break will be
> a welcome one.
>
>
> Ben Cittadino wrote:
>> Herb;
>>
>> Come on now. I'm perfectly happy to have an argument with you, but you
>> can't
>> be dishonest about the subject and expect people to listen. The evil we
>> were both talking about had nothing to do with laying people off in the
>> abstract. It had to do with the POINT of the JOKE which as you very well
>> know was laying people off BECAUSE THEY HAD OBAMA BUMPER STICKERS. That's
>> what made it funny to you and offensive to me. "They wanted change and I
>> gave it to them". Remember?
>>
>> Apparently I have somehow managed to hurt your feelings, because is is
>> usually not your style to use vulgar expressions, except when you are
>> feeling attacked, so I must have provoked you in some way to cause your
>> "do
>> you really believe the **** you write?" line. I do think we ought not to
>> use
>> such profanity on this list and would request that you not do so.
>> Remember,
>> you and I are not the only people who see this stuff.
>>
>> In fact, my posts do reflect my beliefs, and for those who wonder why I
>> waste my time with you, it is because your beliefs reflect those of a
>> (thankfully small) number of people I have met and dealt with in my life.
>> In
>> short, understanding the likes of you helps me. Thanks for your
>> contribution
>> to my education on human nature.
>>
>> Be well, Herb. Have a truly joyous Holiday Season. I think we're done
>> here.
>>
>> Ben C.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> hparsons wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry Ben, you are under a misconception.
>>>
>>> There IS no "evil" in laying off workers. You may choose to call it
>>> "throwing workers out in the street', but the truth of the matter is it
>>> is a person (or a group of people) choosing to no longer employ an
>>> individual, and that is their RIGHT. It's not an evil, it's not even
>>> wrong, unless they are doing something contrary to what they've
>>> promised.
>>>
>>> If they've signed a contract, they should honor it. If they've made
>>> promises, they should honor those. But workers leave (often without
>>> notice), simply because they find something better, decide not to work
>>> anymore, whatever. Employers have that same right.
>>>
>>> As for the rest of your drivel, you completely mis read what I wrote.
>>> Might I suggest you go back and look at what I actually said:
>>>
>>> "... is not only wrong, but worthy of disdain ..." Is a clue, but
>>> frankly, I think you're clueless. You see what you want to see, and
>>> anyone that doesn't see it is wrong.
>>>
>>> And what in the WORLD are you talking about "covering for each other". I
>>> said nothing in support of Ed, nor did I speak of Marxism.
>>>
>>> Do you REALLY believe the shit you write?
>>>
>>> Ben Cittadino wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ed and Herb;
>>>>
>>>> Herb said,
>>>> "You know something Ben, that you totally miss - EVERYONE thinks their
>>>> cause is worthy, and EVERYONE thinks those causes 180 degrees opposite
>>>> are wrong.
>>>>
>>>> The difference between you, and others of your ilk, is the arrogance
>>>> that says "Not only is my cause the worthy one, but anyone that sees
>>>> things differently is not only wrong, but worthy of disdain, because I
>>>> am so obviously right that anyone that differs that strongly from me is
>>>> unAmerican and wrong."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ed said,
>>>> "Your thought of arrogance is correct. Arrogance is especially
>>>> noticeable
>>>> in
>>>> those who have loss touch with ordinary people. Arrogance is often
>>>> evident
>>>> in those of self appointed elites, many of higher formal education."
>>>>
>>>> So let me get this straight. A strong opinion as to the fundamental
>>>> "rightness" of one's position on an issue (such as the evil of throwing
>>>> workers into the street and out of their jobs, joking or not), equates
>>>> with
>>>> "arrogance". That is exactly what you both have said . So since
>>>> EVERYONE
>>>> feels that way (that their cause is right and the other guy's is wrong)
>>>> I
>>>> assume there must not be any absolute Right or Wrong according to your
>>>> philosophical outlook. Therefor, in your view, all morality is relative
>>>> only
>>>> to the person making the judgment. Thus MY morality (fairness to
>>>> workers
>>>> and
>>>> disapproval of jokes celebrating the hurting of workers) represents
>>>> arrogance to you Herb and you Ed. My recollection is that both of you
>>>> claim
>>>> to hold Christian values. Does this mean that your strong opinions on,
>>>> say,
>>>> abortion or stem cell research are arrogant? If there is no fundamental
>>>> Right or Wrong how are we to make judgments? I would offer that some
>>>> things
>>>> are Right and some things are Wrong, and that there are Good guys and
>>>> Bad
>>>> guys, and the difficulty of confronting evil does not excuse us from
>>>> the
>>>> duty to do so. So yes, I believe Bill's joke of several weeks ago was a
>>>> manifestation of a depraved heart, and was not the least bit funny. And
>>>> yes,I think the two of you ought to give more thought to what it means
>>>> to
>>>> be
>>>> an American and less to the marxists hiding under your beds. I won't
>>>> hold
>>>> my
>>>> breath waiting for you to engage in any self examination however.
>>>> You're
>>>> too
>>>> busy covering for each other to think for yourselves.
>>>>
>>>> Merry Christmas
>>>>
>>>> Ben C.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Rummy,
>>>>>
>>>>> Somebody that comes on once every 3 or 4 months ought to consider
>>>>> making
>>>>> sure others can clearly i.d. who is making the comments. I do not
>>>>> have
>>>>> your infallible memory. However, I do remember various trolls in the
>>>>> past.
>>>>>
>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>
>>>>> Study these web sites:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.facesoflawsuitabuse.org/facts/
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.instituteforlegalreform.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> It is important to remember that one aspect of Marxism is control of
>>>>> the
>>>>> people. Remember that Marxism seeks to create a 'Dictatorship of the
>>>>> Proletariat’. An important aspect of control is control descent and
>>>>> free
>>>>> thought. An element of dictatorship is for the dictator making his
>>>>> opinions the correct and only view.
>>>>>
>>>>> A Marxist dictator will claim that he is speaking for the little guy.
>>>>> There is glossing over the fact that the little guy can speak for
>>>>> himself.
>>>>> He pretends the little guy incapable of self defense when in fact that
>>>>> is
>>>>> not true. He believes only the Marxist knows the truth.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your thought of arrogance is correct. Arrogance is especially
>>>>> noticeable
>>>>> in those who have loss touch with ordinary people. Arrogance is often
>>>>> evident in those of self appointed elites, many of higher formal
>>>>> education.
>>>>>
>>>>> I recall pictures and news reports of a ceremony in the Roman Catholic
>>>>> Church in Rome where the Pope washes the feet of a group of Cardinals.
>>>>> What is the purpose of that ceremony?
>>>>>
>>>>> In 1936 Major General J. F. C. Fuller wrote a booklet for the U. S.
>>>>> Army
>>>>> entitled, Generalship: Its diseases and Their Cure. Therein he
>>>>> discussed
>>>>> the arrogance of power and one of its cause as disassociation from
>>>>> reality. This affliction is evident in the U. S. national media and
>>>>> its
>>>>> acolytes and some members of this forum.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Herb Parsons
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
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>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Herb Parsons
>
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