[Rhodes22-list] Global warming and Lake Hartwellfreezing over...
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Fri Jan 4 13:51:27 EST 2008
I thought maybe you were headed down the path to an epiphany that I
had a few weeks back. Here's what made me think you were:
I might be inclined to make the sacrifice they're asking for (for different rea
sons)
except the sacrifice won't be shared universally.
You didn't go with that where I did, so I'll expound a little.
So many people are buying into the "universal sacrifice" lie on this
new religion. The FACT is that it's NOT "universal sacrifice", it's
just more class seperation.
Do you believe for a minute that Gore or Edwards with the "zero carbon
footprint" are making the same sacrifices they are asking you and I to
make??? People are insane if they believe that.
Those two (and I'd hazard to guess the majority of those they run
with) achieve their "zero carbon footprint" buy BUYING their way out
of it. In their vision of the way things "should be", you and I would
be forced to climb into deathraps that get 50 miles to the gallon (and
zero survivors in accidents), while they continue to climb in the
SUV's and personal jets, and simply buy their way out of it.
In other words, government mandated sacrifices for the "commoners",
and priviledges for the wealthy.
Now, I don't begrudge the wealthy their wealth, as a matter of fact, I
WANT them there, so I can have the freedom to aspire to it myself;
however, I don't see the justice in allowing one class of people to
buy their way out of government madates, while other classes have to
conform.
Brad Haslett wrote:
Herb,
One of our Christmas day guests was a geophysics professor from an Ivy
League school. I love discussing plate tectonics with geophysicists because
they can't prove their theories anymore than they can disprove mine. The
same is true with climatologists. But, the climatologist crowd has funding
and political clout. It would all be amusing (as it is with geophysicists)
except the new religion of global warming wants something from us. I might
be inclined to make the sacrifice they're asking for (for different reasons)
except the sacrifice won't be shared universally. Even if we could prove
beyond doubt that mankind is responsible for global warming (which we
can't), 40% of the world (China and India) doesn't give a shit. That leaves
another 50% who hasn't figured out how to use gasoline for anything but
Molotov cocktails. You know what, it ain't that cold after all. I'm going
to the airport to work on my gas guzzling airplane!
Brad
On Jan 4, 2008 10:19 AM, Herb Parsons [1]<hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
Sorry, to me it's just more religious techno-babble. You talk about
core samples that showed trends thousands of years old, yet the first
few lines of the web page you referred to speaks to climate change
caused by humans.
There IS NO SCIENTIFIC FACTS to support the notion. Not on that web
site, nor in the immensely popular religions associated with the stuff
today.
Even your post indicates your bent - "
"For those who really are interested in the basis and history of the
climate
instead of quoting obscure Russian websites," ...
As if those of us that don't subscribe to the beliefs (and they are
that - beliefs) are somehow not "really interested".
Ronald Lipton wrote:
I do know something about this stuff (more than I know about sailing)
so I will try to outline a bit of the history of the science.
Global climate became a subject of study in the 1930's.
There was some indication then, by looking at the rather sparse weather
records that there had been some warming over the past century.
Most took this to be part of a local cycle, but the weather data was
untrustworthy
and centered on the Western Hemisphere. Studies in the 50s and 60s
focussed on the competing effects of injection of dust and smog, which
leads
to
cooling, and greenhouse gas effects, which would cause warming. In the
same period studies began using ice cores and deep ocean sediments of
climate histories. Evidence for a 20,000 year cycle developed, with
larger swings in a 100,000 year period. This coincides with the period of
slight deviations of the earth's orbit. Ice cores showed a pattern
of rapid warming and slow cooling. These deviations, due to a wobble of
the
axis, correspond to a tiny change in the total sunlight absorbed by the
earth. This, in turn, led to a realization of the sensitivity of the
climate system
to small perterbations. One of the realizations was that greenhouse gas
effects could serve to amplify small changes in total sunlight.
On the smaller time scale this was obscured by a slow cooling trend in the
50's and 60's. This led to a period of confusion and contradictory
predictions.
At that point climate models were not well enough developed and computing
power was insufficient to make reliable predictions from first principles.
Since
that time the temperature trend has been much more dramatic. In adidtion
models have now been developed which can be used to understand the
climate system. These models are what global warming predictions are
based
on,
not "gee it's really hot today" or "it sure has been cold this winter".
In
that
sense climate is more a science that it has been in the past, able to make
predictions
based on specific assumptions and verified by it's ability to reporduce
effects such as the
el ninos and climatic effects of volcanic eruptions.
For those who really are interested in the basis and history of the
climate
instead of
quoting obscure Russian websites, take a look at the essays posted on the
American Institute of Physics website:
[1][2]http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.html
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rik Sandberg" [2][3]<sanderico1 at gmail.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" [3][4]<rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Global warming and Lake Hartwellfreezing
over...
Herb,
Ha ha ha ...... that's a good one :-)
I'm gonna' poke my head up just to make a prediction
Sometime in the future .... the Nobel Prize selection committee (whoever
they are) will look back at the day they chose to award Al Gore a Nobel
Prize for his little slide show as the most embarrassing day of their
lives. They'll likely never admit it though. :-)
Spoken from the perspective of someone who should now be frozen in a
glacier somewhere, had all the "global cooling" predictions of the
"chicken littles" come true back in the seventies.
Rik
"Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not
sure about the universe."
- Albert Einstein
Herb Parsons wrote:
Ed, haven't you figured it out?
It all relates to the global cooling we were warned about when we were
kids. The global cooling created a global warming effect trough
transverse hyper-inversion induction. This global warming, in turn,
causes localized cooling (on a global scale) through the same process.
I'm going to make a movie to explain it all, just as soon as my
fundraising kicks in. Want to start it off?
(from the "they'll believe anything" department)
Herb Parsons
S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
Tootle wrote:
The last few days have been a bit cooler near Lake Hartwell. Further
south,
I hear of snow at Daytona Beach, Florida. So what is going on? Look at
this analysis:
[4][5]http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080103/94768732.html
So how does that article square with Al Gore? Go pull you head out of
the
sand?
[5][6]http://www.nabble.com/file/p14375865/Lake%2BHartwell%2BAfternoon.JPG
Lake+Hartwell+Afternoon.JPG
Ed K
Greenville, SC, USA
"In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the
universe."
Carl Sagan
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--
Herb Parsons
S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
References
1. [10]http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.html
2. [11]mailto:sanderico1 at gmail.com
3. [12]mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
4. [13]http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080103/94768732.html
5. [14]http://www.nabble.com/file/p14375865/Lake%2BHartwell%2BAfternoon.JPG
6. [15]mailto:Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
7. [16]http://www.rhodes22.org/list
8. [17]mailto:Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
9. [18]http://www.rhodes22.org/list
10. [19]mailto:Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
11. [20]http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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--
Herb Parsons
S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35
References
1. mailto:hparsons at parsonsys.com
2. http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.html
3. mailto:sanderico1 at gmail.com
4. mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
5. http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080103/94768732.html
6. http://www.nabble.com/file/p14375865/Lake%2BHartwell%2BAfternoon.JPG
7. mailto:6]Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
8. mailto:8]Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
9. mailto:10]Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
10. http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.html
11. mailto:sanderico1 at gmail.com
12. mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
13. http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080103/94768732.html
14. http://www.nabble.com/file/p14375865/Lake%2BHartwell%2BAfternoon.JPG
15. mailto:Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
16. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
17. mailto:Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
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