[Rhodes22-list] small boat sailing Re: Chris Crispel

[Mary Lou Troy]

Chris,
A few more thoughts.

I think Steve (Slim) makes a good distinction between two kinds of 
sailing. Do you want a small trailerable boat with its attendant 
characteristics or do you want a more solid ocean going boat that is 
less trailerable. (Most boats under 40ft. are transportable if you 
have access to a crane (on both sides of the country) and a flatbed. 
The real consideration in my mind is how far you have to go and 
likely are you to get caught out in real weather - your definition 
but in my mind "real weather" does NOT include the passing squall. If 
you remember Paul Cleavenger's description of his capsize he says 
that had he been able to get the bow into the wind he might have 
weathered even the microburst. Note that the wave that capsized him 
built in a shallow river. I don't know the depths where you might be 
sailing but in true ocean depths waves won't build in a short squall.

I think the question for you may be how likely are you to get caught 
out in weather systems that raise the winds above 25 knots for a day 
at a time? Wind blowing 25 knots for 24 hours or more will build up 
bigger waves than a sudden brief squall. Somewhere between 20 and 30 
knots, the Rhodes becomes less able to tack into the wind.  The 
windage of the flared hull, the freeboard and rigging combine with 
the larger waves throwing you about and it all catches up to you. If 
you are sailing on the ocean, what are the distances between you and 
a safe harbor? Would you have enough notice of a weather system 
coming in to get there?

We sail all over the Chesapeake in our Rhodes. Weather forecasting 
and delivery of weather information is good. We can pick our weather 
windows. Safe harbors are never more than 8 hours away.

What do folks who sail your prospective cruising grounds sail? Are 
there boats under 30 ft? If folks are sailing newer small Catalinas 
and Hunters, they are probably not much more seaworthy than the 
Rhodes.We spend a lot of time with folks with bigger boats and while 
we are perhaps more cautious where the weather is concerned (our 
motto is "why get beat up if you don't have to?"), we don't miss 
much. For the most part we find that when we stay in because of the 
wind and waves, our friends in Catalinas stay in as well. Some of our 
friends in Island Packets or the guy with the Heritage West Indies 34 
will go out in higher winds and be comfortable.

Again best of luck with your decision,
Mary Lou
1991 R22 Fretless
Rock Hall, MD

At 09:48 AM 1/23/2008, you wrote:
>Steven:
>
>You have given sound advice.  I was just about to pack it in when I received
>your e-mail.  Of course your right and will proceed cautiously.
>
>Thanks Again
>
>Chris
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Steven Alm" <stevenalm at gmail.com>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 2:51 AM
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chris Crispel
>
>
> > Chris,
> >
> > I think it all depends on how you like to sail.  Obviously the R22 is much
> > more tender than a full keel boat like the Dana, Flicka, Cape Dory,
> > whatever, but I've been caught in high winds and have been way
> > over-powered
> > and dunked my rails and shipped water into the cockpit many times.  If you
> > don't mind riding a spirited horse then you'll be fine.  The boat is
> > seaworthy as hell but in high winds, you're in for some "X sailing."
> > Secure
> > your gear and sail her like a laser.  I'm fine with that and the boat's
> > fine
> > with that, but the Mrs. doesn't like it that much.  Therein lies the
> > question:  What does the Mrs. want?  I've finally learned to reef way the
> > hell in and sail upright in high winds and keep the crew happy and safe.
> > This is the beauty of the Rhodes IMF with furling Genny--infinite reefing
> > capabilities.
> >
> > That said, the highest wind you can comfortably sail the R22 in is about
> > 27.  Beyond that the hull has too much windage to tack about.  In that
> > case
> > you have to jibe about, but you can still make way.  And if you're going
> > downwind, you'll be a happy guy!
> >
> > As for toughness, the R22 has 9 stays--each with it's own chainplate.  You
> > could lose any two and the mast would still stand.  Ummm...probably.
> >
> > You said you are enamored by the Rhodes (as well you should be) for her
> > many
> > great features.  You said you want to explore the islands--with the
> > combination keel of the Rhodes you can easily beach your boat on those
> > islands.  You certainly can't do that with a full keel.
> >
> > You're an experienced sailor and you know big WX can f**k you up no matter
> > what boat you're on.  Examine your needs and wants and ask more questions
> > here.
> >
> > Re Panama, the San Blas are on the Caribbean side which is far more calm
> > than the Pacific.  I think you'd be fine with the R22.
> >
> > Slim
> >
> > On Jan 23, 2008 12:50 AM, john Belanger <jhnblngr at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> i have to ask a question. why are you buying a boat here and taking it to
> >> panama? are you sailing it to panama, shipping it or driving down with it
> >> on
> >> a trailer?  i may have missed part of your explanation, somewhere. sorry,
> >> i
> >> just don't get it. are you going to be on the atlantic  or pacific side?
> >>
> >> Chris Crispel <ccrispel at jeffnet.org> wrote:  You mean like a larger,
> >> heavier boat with a diesel engine and prop (under
> >> the hull)
> >>
> >> thanks, you and others are helping me make a decision.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Just bent"
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 7:10 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Chris Crispel
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Chris,
> >> > I have not been sailing long but I have been out in some big weather in
> >> my
> >> > R22, (on a lake) and the one thing that was a problem for me was the
> >> motor
> >> > hanging off the back of the boat. I was rolling so much the prop would
> >> > come
> >> > out of the water. I remember thinking it might be better if the prop
> >> > was
> >> > under the boat.
> >> >
> >> > Jb
> >> > Just bent
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Chris Crispel wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Tootle:
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm here on "the list" because I have been taken with the Rhodes 22
> >> >> but
> >> >> have
> >> >> a major question that needs to be put to the members of 'the list".
> >> >>
> >> >> My wife and I will be moving to the Republic of Panama to make it our
> >> >> future
> >> >> home. As you may know, there are no bays (to speak of) or lakes, just
> >> >> the
> >> >> ocean. My question is multifaceted- have any of you sailed offshore in
> >> >> the
> >> >> Rhodes?, how does she handle ocean swells, what adjustments
> >> >> (modifications)
> >> >> would you make to increase safety and comfort aboard. Yes, I do know
> >> >> that
> >> >> one can sail in a cork, but who wants to be battered about in the
> >> ocean.
> >> >>
> >> >> I have been sailing since the age of 16 and now I'm way, way, beyond
> >> >> that.
> >> >> I am a highly experienced sailor and my common sea sense is that this
> >> >> vessel
> >> >> is to small and subject to being tossed about like a cork. So, please
> >> >> tell
> >> >> me that I am wrong and making to much out of this.
> >> >>
> >> >> I currently reside in Ashland, Oregon and would love to meet other
> >> owners
> >> >> and their vessels. California and Oregon are the States where that
> >> would
> >> >> be
> >> >> possible. However, if I can't meet everyone, then I will have to be
> >> >> satisfied with "the list".
> >> >>
> >> >> Many Thanks
> >> >>
> >> >> Chris Crispel
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Tootle"
> >> >> To:
> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 8:42 AM
> >> >> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Chris Crispel
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Chris,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Welcome to the Rhodes List. Now, just who are you? And where ya be?
> >> >>> And
> >> >>> why ya here?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Ed K
> >> >>> Greenville, SC, USA
> >> >>> fishin' is like a box of chocolate.. u never no what your gonna
> >> catch..
> >> >>> and
> >> >>> sometimes you catch nothing! Unattributed
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> View this message in context:
> >> >>> http://www.nabble.com/Chris-Crispel-tp15022481p15022481.html
> >> >>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> __________________________________________________
> >> >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >>
> >> >> __________________________________________________
> >> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > View this message in context:
> >> > http://www.nabble.com/Chris-Crispel-tp15022481p15034016.html
> >> > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >> >
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------
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> >> __________________________________________________
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> >>
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>
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