[Rhodes22-list] Mo Gubmint - Politics & Education

Mon Mar 10 00:33:06 EDT 2008

Thanks Elle!  Well said.
Chris G
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "elle" <watermusic38 at yahoo.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mo Gubmint - Politics & Education


> Slim,,
>
> I'd been trying to stay out of this since there are
> some who seem to know more on this subject than those
> of us in the biz...and things do get a bit heated here
> at times...;^)
>
> That said, I've been chomping at the bit...so here it
> comes......
>
> One cannot generalize about this topic....training in
> any profession is essential, altho' dealing with the
> basics may be in the perview of many parents.
>
> An educated populace promotes the welfare of the
> nation and its citizens; but we have babies having
> babies...who can say that these folks are capable of
> 'educating' their offspring? Or is what they are
> teaching what is good for our nation?
>
> I have had in my classes students who were
> homeschooled until high school age, when material
> became too complicated for the home school parents.
> Those students were ...generally...bright,
> inquisitive, respectful. But, so were many of the kids
> who had come through the system. Some of the HS kids
> were rude & demanding...but so were the 'system' kids.
>
> I believe there are many parents who are quite capable
> of teaching their children ...(isn't what moms did
> before we tossed the kiddies into day care & headed
> into the work force? Thanks, women's lib...) Shouldn't
> there be standards for these students as well as for
> the ones in the system?
>
> But there is  point at which parents cannot get the
> material across to their students. Not having depth in
> a subject and trying to teach it quickly shows how
> little you really know. To instill understanding, to
> reinforce it and reiterate it, a good teacher needs to
> be able to approach the subject from different
> directions; to look at the difficulties the student is
> having through his eyes, and devise a strategy to help
> him capture the elusive knowledge.
>
> So what is the worth of a teaching credential?? What
> is the worth of a medical license...or a beautician's
> license. After all, I can cut hair...give me a pair of
> scissors & I'll show you....OH...do it WELL...with
> STYLE....in a way that suits the recipient...I get
> it...that's what the TRAINING is for....
>
> When you need a surgeon, would you want the one
> trained by the local butcher or the one who
> matriculated at a highly rated university? I mean, I
> can cut up a chicken into parts & a roast into stew
> meat...
>
> Why do we train our troops...or our police...or hazmat
> crews...or bus drivers...?
>
> The point of the teaching credential is not the
> rinky-dink edu courses.....(altho; there were some
> good ones...) the point of the credential is the
> exposure and experience the teacher brings to the
> student....the breadth and depth of knowledge of
> topics other than just the subject matter...THAT's the
> education...
>
> To be able to react without thinking in an
> emergency...we look for standardization in many
> occupations...following procedures....that's the
> training...and only a highly trained person can pass
> this on.
>
>
> Thanks for asking, Slim ;^)
>
> BTW..when I retired, I donated all 33 yrs of my
> teaching materials to the home school folks of a local
> church, one of whose dads was  a science teacher at my
> HS. They had weekend classes; he taught science on Sat
> AM.
>
> elle
>
>
> --- Steven Alm <stevenalm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Brad,
> >
> > Sorry, I didn't mean to be vague, just brief.  What
> > I'm getting at is that
> > in a perfect world, all parents are wonderful and
> > would make great home
> > school teachers for their perfect children.
> > But........  Or maybe they
> > don't care about whatever--music, sports, all that
> > peripheral stuff--and
> > only care that their precious little ones don't hear
> > anything about that
> > godless thing we call evolution or sex education or
> > a myriad of unsavory
> > topics called the real world.  If their goal is
> > protectionism rather than a
> > complete, rounded education, they should be allowed
> > to sheild their kids
> > from the evils of the outside world.
> >
> > That said, I've met several home schooled
> > individuals who were articulate,
> > confident and looked you straight in the eye when
> > speaking to you with
> > endless curiosity about the world and with promising
> > futures.  Two in
> > particular are my twin niece and nephew.  She was
> > operating way above her
> > grade level and was getting bored in school because
> > it wasn't a challenge
> > for her.  The boy was operating below his grade
> > level and was frustrated and
> > started developing behavioral problems.  So they
> > were both pulled out of
> > school and taught at home for several years and
> > eventually rejoined their
> > classmates in public school for their graduation.
> > One parent a PhD and the
> > other a neurosurgeon, their education was solid to
> > say the least.  I'm
> > afraid this is the exception however.
> >
> > As for certification, less than qualified teachers
> > will produce less than
> > qualified students. The question is whether you can
> > be qualified without
> > being certified.  Perhaps.  Why should a pilot need
> > a licence?  Shouldn't it
> > be OK to let a person fly a jet without all that
> > bull shit instruction?
> > After all, it's as simple as following the
> > checklist, right?  Isn't that
> > just too much gubment getting in your way?  When I
> > was going through my
> > certification there were a few times when I thought
> > it was just busy work
> > but most of it was valuable to me.  I couldn't have
> > gotten through the first
> > week of teaching without it.
> >
> > I wish Elle would chime in.  After 33 years in the
> > biz I know she has some
> > insight.  C'mon girl!
> >
> > Slim
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Brad Haslett
> > <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Slim,
> > >
> > > I'm guessing as to what you really mean.  But, let
> > me address the "what is
> > > important to me" question first.  The issue at
> > hand in California is who
> > > "owns" the children.  Most (and that includes me)
> > feel that the parents
> > > "own" the RESPONSIBILITY for their children and
> > that includes the right to
> > > oversee their education.  Both of my boys went to
> > private schools where
> > > the
> > > teachers didn't have 'teaching credentials' but
> > they knew their subject
> > > matter and knew how to teach.  If they didn't, I
> > had two choices, pull
> > > them
> > > out or bitch.  I did neither because 1 - they had
> > incredible instructors,
> > > and 2 - the school would have told me to "go pound
> > sand" if I bitched.
> > >  The
> > > concept of everyone having access to a public
> > education is a wonderful
> > > thing
> > > and I support it.  The disconnect is that many
> > people feel they have no
> > > control over the process and they opt out.  That
> > choice should be
> > > protected.
> > >
> > > Just so you don't misunderstand my point, let me
> > state it clearly.  Some
> > > folks are naturally gifted teachers and some folks
> > know a given area of
> > > science or art very well.  When you find an
> > individual that can combine
> > > their knowledge of a given subject and have a
> > natural ability to teach,
> > > it's
> > > a wonderful thing.  Having a 'credential' means
> > you have the patience to
> > > listen to X hours of bullshit theory and nothing
> > else!
> > >
> > > BTW, I take as much pride in teaching my art and
> > science as I do
> > > practicing
> > > it - $100 says you do too.
> > >
> > > Brad
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 1:23 AM, Steven Alm
> > <stevenalm at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >  "I just don't get it!  What is so
> > > > special about a teaching credential?"
> > > >
> > > > Well, for one thing, there is only one in a
> > million moms out there that
> > > > could even begin to teach five little girls to
> > sing the National Anthem
> > > in
> > > > part harmony like we just heard.
> > > > It's all about what's important to you.
> > > >
> > > > Slim
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Just bent
> > <j.bulfer at jbtek.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >  I just don't get it!  What is so
> > > > > special about a teaching credential?
> > > > >
> > > > > Brad,
> > > > > carefull, you'll have the wrath of the
> > teachers union come down on
> > > you.
> > > > > For every student that is home school, the
> > district loses money.
> > > > > My guess is it's a lobbiest for the public
> > school system who is
> > > pushing
> > > > > this.
> > > > > remember, follow the money and you will find
> > the reason.
> > > > > Jb
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Home schooling is not my thing but a good
> > number of my co-workers
> > > home
> > > > > > school.  Some do it for religious reasons
> > but most do it because
> > > > they're
> > > > > > fed
> > > > > > up with the public school monopoly and don't
> > want to spend $10,000+
> > > > per
> > > > > > child for private schools.  Most of their
> > kids have performed well
> > > on
> > > > > > standardized tests and get into good
> > colleges. That won't be a
> > > choice
> > > > if
> > > > > > California gets their way.  What is it that
> > makes people want a
> > > > > government
> > > > > > that controls every aspect of their lives?
> > I just don't get it!
> > >  What
> > > > > is
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > special about a teaching credential?  Most
> > education textbooks are
> > > > pure
> > > > > > BS.
> > > > > > Note that the LA Times goes heavy into the
> > religion aspect.  That's
> > > > not
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > primary issue with most of the people I know
> > who home school.  Brad
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ruling seen as a threat to many
> > home-schooling families State
> > > > appellate
> > > > > > court says those who teach children in
> > private must have a
> > > credential.
> > > > > > By Seema Mehta and Mitchell Landsberg
> > > > > > Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
> > > > > >
> > > > > > March 6, 2008
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Parents who lack teaching credentials cannot
> > educate their children
> > > at
> > > > > > home,
> > > > > > according to a state appellate court ruling
> > that is sending waves of
> > > > > fear
> > > > > > through California's home schooling
> > families.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Advocates for the families vowed to appeal
> > the decision to the state
> > > > > > Supreme
> > > > > > Court. Enforcement until then appears
> > unlikely, but if the ruling
> > > > > stands,
> > > > > > home-schooling supporters say California
> > will have the most
> > > regressive
> > > > > law
> > > > > > in the nation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "This decision is a direct hit against every
> > home schooler in
> > > > > California,"
> > > > > > said Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific
> > Justice Institute, which
> > > > > > represents the Sunland Christian School,
> > which specializes in
> > > > religious
> > > > > > home
> > > > > > schooling. "If the state Supreme Court does
> > not reverse this . . .
> > > > there
> > > > > > will be nothing to prevent home-school witch
> > hunts from being
> > > > > implemented
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > every corner of the state of California."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The institute estimates there are as many as
> > 166,000 California
> > > > students
> > > > > > who
> > > > > > are home schooled. State Department of
> > Education officials say there
> > > > is
> > > > > no
> > > > > > way to know the true number.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Unlike at least 30 other states, home
> > schooling is not specifically
> > > > > > addressed in California law. Under the state
> > education code,
> > > students
> > > > > must
> > > > > > be enrolled in a public or private school,
> > or can be taught at home
> > > by
> > > > a
> > > > > > credentialed tutor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The California Department of Education
> > currently allows home
> > > schooling
> > > > > as
> > > > > > long as parents file paperwork with the
> > state establishing
> > > themselves
> > > > as
> > > > > > small private schools, hire credentialed
> > tutors or enroll their
> > > > children
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > independent study programs run by charter or
> > private schools or
> > > public
> > > > > > school districts while still teaching at
> > home.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > California does little to enforce those
> > provisions and insists it is
> > > > the
> > > > > > local school districts' responsibility. In
> > addition, state education
> > > > > > officials say some parents home school their
> > children without the
> > > > > > knowledge
> > > > > > of any entity.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Home schoolers and government officials have
> > largely accepted this
> > > > murky
> > > > > > arrangement.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "This works so well, I don't see any reason
> > to change it," said J.
> > > > > Michael
> > > > > > Smith, president of the Virginia-based Home
> > School Legal Defense
> > > Assn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The appellate court ruling stems from a case
> > involving Lynwood
> > > parents
> > > > > > Phillip and Mary Long, who were repeatedly
> > referred to the Los
> > > Angeles
> > > > > > County Department of Children and Family
> > Services over various
> > > > > > allegations,
> > > > > > including claims of physical abuse,
> > involving some of their eight
> > > > > > children.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All of the children are currently or had
> > been enrolled in Sunland
> > > > > > Christian
> > > > > > School, where they would occasionally take
> > tests, but were educated
> > > in
> > > > > > their
> > > > > > home by their mother, Phillip Long said.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A lawyer appointed to represent two of the
> > Long's young children
> > > > > requested
> > > > > > that the court require them to physically
> > attend a public or private
> > > > > > school
> > > > > > where adults could monitor their well-being.
> > A trial court
> > > disagreed,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > the children's lawyer appealed to the 2nd
> > District Court of Appeal,
> > > > > which
> > > > > > has jurisdiction over Los Angeles, Ventura,
> > Santa Barbara and San
> > > Luis
> > > > > > Obispo counties.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The appellate panel ruled that Sunland
> > officials' occasional
> > > > monitoring
> > > > > of
> > > > > > the Longs' home schooling -- with the
> > children taking some tests at
> > > > the
> > > > > > school -- is insufficient to qualify as
> > being enrolled in a private
> > > > > > school.
> > > > > > Since Mary Long does not have a teaching
> > credential, the family is
> > > > > > violating
> > > > > > state laws, the ruling said.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Parents do not have a constitutional right
> > to home school their
> > > > > > children,"
> > > > > > wrote Justice H. Walter Croskey in a Feb. 28
> > opinion signed by the
> > > two
> > > > > > other
> > > > > > members of the district court. "Parents who
> > fail to [comply with
> > > > school
> > > > > > enrollment laws] may be subject to a
> > criminal complaint against
> > > them,
> > > > > > found
> > > > > > guilty of an infraction, and subject to
> > imposition of fines or an
> > > > order
> > > > > to
> > > > > > complete a parent education and counseling
> > program."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phillip Long said he believes the ruling
> > stems from hostility
> > > against
> > > > > > Christians and vowed to appeal to the state
> > Supreme Court.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "I have sincerely held religious beliefs,"
> > he said. "Public schools
> > > > > > conflict
> > > > > > with that. I have to go with what my
> > conscience requires me."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Public schools teach such topics as
> > evolution, which Long said he
> > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > believe in. He said his wife spends six
> > hours each day teaching
> > > their
> > > > > > children reading, writing, math, science,
> > health, physical
> > > education,
> > > > > > Bible
> > > > > > and social studies. Court papers say Mary
> > Long's education ended at
> > > > 11th
> > > > > > grade.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's unclear if the ruling will be enforced,
> > given the likely
> > > appeals.
> > > > > > Typically, these rulings take effect 30 days
> > after they are issued.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Other organizations that plan to get
> > involved include the Pacific
> > > > > Justice
> > > > > > Institute, Home School Legal Defense Assn.
> > and the Home School Assn.
> > > > of
> > > > > > California.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Meanwhile, state Department of Education's
> > attorneys are reviewing
> > > the
> > > > > > ruling.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Teachers union officials will also be
> > closely monitoring the appeal.
> > > > A.J
> > > > > .
> > > > > > Duffy, president of United Teachers Los
> > Angeles, said he agrees with
> > > > the
> > > > > > ruling.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "What's best for a child is to be taught by
> > a credentialed teacher,"
> > > > he
> > > > > > said.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While many educators and officials remained
> > unfamiliar with the
> > > ruling
> > > > > > Tuesday, news about it has been sweeping
> > websites and blogs devoted
> > > to
> > > > > > home
> > > > > > schooling. Organizations have been getting
> > tense phone calls from
> > > > > parents
> > > > > > worried that they will be targeted.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Families who home school includethose whose
> > religious beliefs
> > > conflict
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > public schools and those whose children are
> > in the entertainment
> > > > > industry
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > have other time-consuming activities that
> > require them to study at
> > > an
> > > > > > individualized pace.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Glenn and Kathleen, a Sacramento-area couple
> > who requested that
> > > their
> > > > > last
> > > > > > name not be used for fear of prosecution,
> > home school their
> > > 9-year-old
> > > > > son
> > > > > > Hunter because their Christian beliefs would
> > be contradicted in a
> > > > public
> > > > > > school setting, Glenn said. He is troubled
> > by the idea that his son
> > > > > would
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > exposed to teachings about evolution,
> > homosexuality, same-sex
> > > marriage
> > > > > and
> > > > > > sex education .
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "I want to have control over what goes in my
> > son's head, not what's
> > > > put
> > > > > in
> > > > > > there by people who might be on the far left
> > who have their own
> > > ideas
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > indoctrinating kids," he said.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the ruling takes effect, Glenn vowed to
> > move his family out of
> > > > state.
> > > > > > "If
> > > > > > I can't home school my son in California,
> > we're going to have to end
> > > > up
> > > > > > leaving California. That's how important it
> > is to me."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > seema.mehta at latimes.com
> > > > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > View this message in context:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.nabble.com/Mo-Gubmint---Politics---Education-tp15887644p15888952.html
> > > > > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive
> > at Nabble.com.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > __________________________________________________
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>
> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
>
>  1992 Rhodes 22   Recyc '06  "WaterMusic"   (Lady in Red)
>
>
>
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