[Rhodes22-list] Mo Gubmint - Politics & Education

[elle]

Thanks, Chris...and thanks for chiming in...makes the
days move faster....60's this week!

Bubblers are put away...maples are leafing out, quince
& almond are doing their thing...almost time to unwrap
the boat!

elle

--- Chris Geankoplis <napoli68 at charter.net> wrote:

> Thanks Elle!  Well said.
> Chris G
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "elle" <watermusic38 at yahoo.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 7:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mo Gubmint - Politics &
> Education
> 
> 
> > Slim,,
> >
> > I'd been trying to stay out of this since there
> are
> > some who seem to know more on this subject than
> those
> > of us in the biz...and things do get a bit heated
> here
> > at times...;^)
> >
> > That said, I've been chomping at the bit...so here
> it
> > comes......
> >
> > One cannot generalize about this topic....training
> in
> > any profession is essential, altho' dealing with
> the
> > basics may be in the perview of many parents.
> >
> > An educated populace promotes the welfare of the
> > nation and its citizens; but we have babies having
> > babies...who can say that these folks are capable
> of
> > 'educating' their offspring? Or is what they are
> > teaching what is good for our nation?
> >
> > I have had in my classes students who were
> > homeschooled until high school age, when material
> > became too complicated for the home school
> parents.
> > Those students were ...generally...bright,
> > inquisitive, respectful. But, so were many of the
> kids
> > who had come through the system. Some of the HS
> kids
> > were rude & demanding...but so were the 'system'
> kids.
> >
> > I believe there are many parents who are quite
> capable
> > of teaching their children ...(isn't what moms did
> > before we tossed the kiddies into day care &
> headed
> > into the work force? Thanks, women's lib...)
> Shouldn't
> > there be standards for these students as well as
> for
> > the ones in the system?
> >
> > But there is  point at which parents cannot get
> the
> > material across to their students. Not having
> depth in
> > a subject and trying to teach it quickly shows how
> > little you really know. To instill understanding,
> to
> > reinforce it and reiterate it, a good teacher
> needs to
> > be able to approach the subject from different
> > directions; to look at the difficulties the
> student is
> > having through his eyes, and devise a strategy to
> help
> > him capture the elusive knowledge.
> >
> > So what is the worth of a teaching credential??
> What
> > is the worth of a medical license...or a
> beautician's
> > license. After all, I can cut hair...give me a
> pair of
> > scissors & I'll show you....OH...do it WELL...with
> > STYLE....in a way that suits the recipient...I get
> > it...that's what the TRAINING is for....
> >
> > When you need a surgeon, would you want the one
> > trained by the local butcher or the one who
> > matriculated at a highly rated university? I mean,
> I
> > can cut up a chicken into parts & a roast into
> stew
> > meat...
> >
> > Why do we train our troops...or our police...or
> hazmat
> > crews...or bus drivers...?
> >
> > The point of the teaching credential is not the
> > rinky-dink edu courses.....(altho; there were some
> > good ones...) the point of the credential is the
> > exposure and experience the teacher brings to the
> > student....the breadth and depth of knowledge of
> > topics other than just the subject matter...THAT's
> the
> > education...
> >
> > To be able to react without thinking in an
> > emergency...we look for standardization in many
> > occupations...following procedures....that's the
> > training...and only a highly trained person can
> pass
> > this on.
> >
> >
> > Thanks for asking, Slim ;^)
> >
> > BTW..when I retired, I donated all 33 yrs of my
> > teaching materials to the home school folks of a
> local
> > church, one of whose dads was  a science teacher
> at my
> > HS. They had weekend classes; he taught science on
> Sat
> > AM.
> >
> > elle
> >
> >
> > --- Steven Alm <stevenalm at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Brad,
> > >
> > > Sorry, I didn't mean to be vague, just brief. 
> What
> > > I'm getting at is that
> > > in a perfect world, all parents are wonderful
> and
> > > would make great home
> > > school teachers for their perfect children.
> > > But........  Or maybe they
> > > don't care about whatever--music, sports, all
> that
> > > peripheral stuff--and
> > > only care that their precious little ones don't
> hear
> > > anything about that
> > > godless thing we call evolution or sex education
> or
> > > a myriad of unsavory
> > > topics called the real world.  If their goal is
> > > protectionism rather than a
> > > complete, rounded education, they should be
> allowed
> > > to sheild their kids
> > > from the evils of the outside world.
> > >
> > > That said, I've met several home schooled
> > > individuals who were articulate,
> > > confident and looked you straight in the eye
> when
> > > speaking to you with
> > > endless curiosity about the world and with
> promising
> > > futures.  Two in
> > > particular are my twin niece and nephew.  She
> was
> > > operating way above her
> > > grade level and was getting bored in school
> because
> > > it wasn't a challenge
> > > for her.  The boy was operating below his grade
> > > level and was frustrated and
> > > started developing behavioral problems.  So they
> > > were both pulled out of
> > > school and taught at home for several years and
> > > eventually rejoined their
> > > classmates in public school for their
> graduation.
> > > One parent a PhD and the
> > > other a neurosurgeon, their education was solid
> to
> > > say the least.  I'm
> > > afraid this is the exception however.
> > >
> > > As for certification, less than qualified
> teachers
> > > will produce less than
> > > qualified students. The question is whether you
> can
> > > be qualified without
> > > being certified.  Perhaps.  Why should a pilot
> need
> > > a licence?  Shouldn't it
> > > be OK to let a person fly a jet without all that
> > > bull shit instruction?
> > > After all, it's as simple as following the
> > > checklist, right?  Isn't that
> > > just too much gubment getting in your way?  When
> I
> > > was going through my
> > > certification there were a few times when I
> thought
> > > it was just busy work
> > > but most of it was valuable to me.  I couldn't
> have
> > > gotten through the first
> > > week of teaching without it.
> > >
> > > I wish Elle would chime in.  After 33 years in
> the
> > > biz I know she has some
> > > insight.  C'mon girl!
> > >
> > > Slim
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Brad Haslett
> > > <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Slim,
> > > >
> > > > I'm guessing as to what you really mean.  But,
> let
> > > me address the "what is
> > > > important to me" question first.  The issue at
> > > hand in California is who
> > > > "owns" the children.  Most (and that includes
> me)
> > > feel that the parents
> > > > "own" the RESPONSIBILITY for their children
> and
> > > that includes the right to
> > > > oversee their education.  Both of my boys went
> to
> > > private schools where
> > > > the
> > > > teachers didn't have 'teaching credentials'
> but
> > > they knew their subject
> > > > matter and knew how to teach.  If they didn't,
> I
> > > had two choices, pull
> > > > them
> > > > out or bitch.  I did neither because 1 - they
> had
> > > incredible instructors,
> > > > and 2 - the school would have told me to "go
> pound
> > > sand" if I bitched.
> > > >  The
> > > > concept of everyone having access to a public
> > > education is a wonderful
> > > > thing
> > > > and I support it.  The disconnect is that many
> > > people feel they have no
> > > > control over the process and they opt out. 
> That
> > > choice should be
> > > > protected.
> > > >
> > > > Just so you don't misunderstand my point, let
> me
> > > state it clearly.  Some
> > > > folks are naturally gifted teachers and some
> folks
> > > know a given area of
> > > > science or art very well.  When you find an
> > > individual that can combine
> > > > their knowledge of a given subject and have a
> > > natural ability to teach,
> > > > it's
> > > > a wonderful thing.  Having a 'credential'
> means
> > > you have the patience to
> > > > listen to X hours of bullshit theory and
> nothing
> > > else!
> > > >
> > > > BTW, I take as much pride in teaching my art
> and
> > > science as I do
> > > > practicing
> > > > it - $100 says you do too.
> > > >
> > > > Brad
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 1:23 AM, Steven Alm
> > > <stevenalm at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >  "I just don't get it!  What is so
> > > > > special about a teaching credential?"
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, for one thing, there is only one in a
> > > million moms out there that
> > > > > could even begin to teach five little girls
> to
> > > sing the National Anthem
> > > > in
> > > > > part harmony like we just heard.
> > > > > It's all about what's important to you.
> > > > >
> > > > > Slim
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Just bent
> > > <j.bulfer at jbtek.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  I just don't get it!  What is so
> > > > > > special about a teaching credential?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brad,
> > > > > > carefull, you'll have the wrath of the
> > > teachers union come down on
> > > > you.
> > > > > > For every student that is home school, the
> > > district loses money.
> > > > > > My guess is it's a lobbiest for the public
> > > school system who is
> > > > pushing
> > > > > > this.
> > > > > > remember, follow the money and you will
> find
> > > the reason.
> > > > > > Jb
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Home schooling is not my thing but a
> good
> > > number of my co-workers
> > > > home
> > > > > > > school.  Some do it for religious
> reasons
> > > but most do it because
> > > > > they're
> > > > > > > fed
> > > > > > > up with the public school monopoly and
> don't
> > > want to spend $10,000+
> > > > > per
> > > > > > > child for private schools.  Most of
> their
> > > kids have performed well
> > > > on
> > > > > > > standardized tests and get into good
> > > colleges. That won't be a
> > > > choice
> > > > > if
> > > > > > > California gets their way.  What is it
> that
> > > makes people want a
> > > > > > government
> > > > > > > that controls every aspect of their
> lives?
> > > I just don't get it!
> > > >  What
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > special about a teaching credential? 
> Most
> > > education textbooks are
> > > > > pure
> > > > > > > BS.
> > > > > > > Note that the LA Times goes heavy into
> the
> > > religion aspect.  That's
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > primary issue with most of the people I
> know
> > > who home school.  Brad
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ruling seen as a threat to many
> > > home-schooling families State
> > > > > appellate
> > > > > > > court says those who teach children in
> > > private must have a
> > > > credential.
> > > > > > > By Seema Mehta and Mitchell Landsberg
> > > > > > > Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > March 6, 2008
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Parents who lack teaching credentials
> cannot
> > > educate their children
> > > > at
> > > > > > > home,
> > > > > > > according to a state appellate court
> ruling
> > > that is sending waves of
> > > > > > fear
> > > > > > > through California's home schooling
> > > families.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Advocates for the families vowed to
> appeal
> > > the decision to the state
> > > > > > > Supreme
> > > > > > > Court. Enforcement until then appears
> > > unlikely, but if the ruling
> > > > > > stands,
> > > > > > > home-schooling supporters say California
> > > will have the most
> > > > regressive
> > > > > > law
> > > > > > > in the nation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "This decision is a direct hit against
> every
> > > home schooler in
> > > > > > California,"
> > > > > > > said Brad Dacus, president of the
> Pacific
> > > Justice Institute, which
> > > > > > > represents the Sunland Christian School,
> > > which specializes in
> > > > > religious
> > > > > > > home
> > > > > > > schooling. "If the state Supreme Court
> does
> > > not reverse this . . .
> > > > > there
> > > > > > > will be nothing to prevent home-school
> witch
> > > hunts from being
> > > > > > implemented
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > every corner of the state of
> California."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The institute estimates there are as
> many as
> > > 166,000 California
> > > > > students
> > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > are home schooled. State Department of
> > > Education officials say there
> > > > > is
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > > way to know the true number.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Unlike at least 30 other states, home
> > > schooling is not specifically
> > > > > > > addressed in California law. Under the
> state
> > > education code,
> > > > students
> > > > > > must
> > > > > > > be enrolled in a public or private
> school,
> > > or can be taught at home
> > > > by
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > credentialed tutor.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The California Department of Education
> > > currently allows home
> > > > schooling
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > long as parents file paperwork with the
> > > state establishing
> > > > themselves
> > > > > as
> > > > > > > small private schools, hire credentialed
> > > tutors or enroll their
> > > > > children
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > independent study programs run by
> charter or
> > > private schools or
> > > > public
> > > > > > > school districts while still teaching at
> > > home.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > California does little to enforce those
> > > provisions and insists it is
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > local school districts' responsibility.
> In
> > > addition, state education
> > > > > > > officials say some parents home school
> their
> > > children without the
> > > > > > > knowledge
> > > > > > > of any entity.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Home schoolers and government officials
> have
> > > largely accepted this
> > > > > murky
> > > > > > > arrangement.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "This works so well, I don't see any
> reason
> > > to change it," said J.
> > > > > > Michael
> > > > > > > Smith, president of the Virginia-based
> Home
> > > School Legal Defense
> > > > Assn.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The appellate court ruling stems from a
> case
> > > involving Lynwood
> > > > parents
> > > > > > > Phillip and Mary Long, who were
> repeatedly
> > > referred to the Los
> > > > Angeles
> > > > > > > County Department of Children and Family
> > > Services over various
> > > > > > > allegations,
> > > > > > > including claims of physical abuse,
> > > involving some of their eight
> > > > > > > children.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All of the children are currently or had
> > > been enrolled in Sunland
> > > > > > > Christian
> > > > > > > School, where they would occasionally
> take
> > > tests, but were educated
> > > > in
> > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > home by their mother, Phillip Long said.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A lawyer appointed to represent two of
> the
> > > Long's young children
> > > > > > requested
> > > > > > > that the court require them to
> physically
> > > attend a public or private
> > > > > > > school
> > > > > > > where adults could monitor their
> well-being.
> > > A trial court
> > > > disagreed,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > the children's lawyer appealed to the
> 2nd
> > > District Court of Appeal,
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > has jurisdiction over Los Angeles,
> Ventura,
> > > Santa Barbara and San
> > > > Luis
> > > > > > > Obispo counties.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The appellate panel ruled that Sunland
> > > officials' occasional
> > > > > monitoring
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > the Longs' home schooling -- with the
> > > children taking some tests at
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > school -- is insufficient to qualify as
> > > being enrolled in a private
> > > > > > > school.
> > > > > > > Since Mary Long does not have a teaching
> > > credential, the family is
> > > > > > > violating
> > > > > > > state laws, the ruling said.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Parents do not have a constitutional
> right
> > > to home school their
> > > > > > > children,"
> > > > > > > wrote Justice H. Walter Croskey in a
> Feb. 28
> > > opinion signed by the
> > > > two
> > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > members of the district court. "Parents
> who
> > > fail to [comply with
> > > > > school
> > > > > > > enrollment laws] may be subject to a
> > > criminal complaint against
> > > > them,
> > > > > > > found
> > > > > > > guilty of an infraction, and subject to
> > > imposition of fines or an
> > > > > order
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > complete a parent education and
> counseling
> > > program."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Phillip Long said he believes the ruling
> > > stems from hostility
> > > > against
> > > > > > > Christians and vowed to appeal to the
> state
> > > Supreme Court.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "I have sincerely held religious
> beliefs,"
> > > he said. "Public schools
> > > > > > > conflict
> > > > > > > with that. I have to go with what my
> > > conscience requires me."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Public schools teach such topics as
> > > evolution, which Long said he
> > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > believe in. He said his wife spends six
> > > hours each day teaching
> > > > their
> > > > > > > children reading, writing, math,
> science,
> > > health, physical
> > > > education,
> > > > > > > Bible
> > > > > > > and social studies. Court papers say
> Mary
> > > Long's education ended at
> > > > > 11th
> > > > > > > grade.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It's unclear if the ruling will be
> enforced,
> > > given the likely
> > > > appeals.
> > > > > > > Typically, these rulings take effect 30
> days
> > > after they are issued.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Other organizations that plan to get
> > > involved include the Pacific
> > > > > > Justice
> > > > > > > Institute, Home School Legal Defense
> Assn.
> > > and the Home School Assn.
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > California.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Meanwhile, state Department of
> Education's
> > > attorneys are reviewing
> > > > the
> > > > > > > ruling.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Teachers union officials will also be
> > > closely monitoring the appeal.
> > > > > A.J
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > > Duffy, president of United Teachers Los
> > > Angeles, said he agrees with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > ruling.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "What's best for a child is to be taught
> by
> > > a credentialed teacher,"
> > > > > he
> > > > > > > said.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While many educators and officials
> remained
> > > unfamiliar with the
> > > > ruling
> > > > > > > Tuesday, news about it has been sweeping
> > > websites and blogs devoted
> > > > to
> > > > > > > home
> > > > > > > schooling. Organizations have been
> getting
> > > tense phone calls from
> > > > > > parents
> > > > > > > worried that they will be targeted.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Families who home school includethose
> whose
> > > religious beliefs
> > > > conflict
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > public schools and those whose children
> are
> > > in the entertainment
> > > > > > industry
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > have other time-consuming activities
> that
> > > require them to study at
> > > > an
> > > > > > > individualized pace.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Glenn and Kathleen, a Sacramento-area
> couple
> > > who requested that
> > > > their
> > > > > > last
> > > > > > > name not be used for fear of
> prosecution,
> > > home school their
> > > > 9-year-old
> > > > > > son
> > > > > > > Hunter because their Christian beliefs
> would
> > > be contradicted in a
> > > > > public
> > > > > > > school setting, Glenn said. He is
> troubled
> > > by the idea that his son
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > exposed to teachings about evolution,
> > > homosexuality, same-sex
> > > > marriage
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > sex education .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "I want to have control over what goes
> in my
> > > son's head, not what's
> > > > > put
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > there by people who might be on the far
> left
> > > who have their own
> > > > ideas
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > indoctrinating kids," he said.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If the ruling takes effect, Glenn vowed
> to
> > > move his family out of
> > > > > state.
> > > > > > > "If
> > > > > > > I can't home school my son in
> California,
> > > we're going to have to end
> > > > > up
> > > > > > > leaving California. That's how important
> it
> > > is to me."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > seema.mehta at latimes.com
> > > > > > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > View this message in context:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.nabble.com/Mo-Gubmint---Politics---Education-tp15887644p15888952.html
> > > > > > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list
> archive
> > > at Nabble.com.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
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> >
> > We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
> can adjust our sails.
> >
> >  1992 Rhodes 22   Recyc '06  "WaterMusic"   (Lady
> in Red)
> >
> >
> >
>
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> 


We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.

 1992 Rhodes 22   Recyc '06  "WaterMusic"   (Lady in Red)


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