[Rhodes22-list] motors

Thu May 29 10:20:50 EDT 2008

Bill,

You are basically correct, the 9.9 engine is really a 15 hp engine de-rated
via fuel flow to beat the regs.  The difference between 8 hp and 9.9 hp
doesn't mean squat (as Rummy pointed out) because of hull speed, however,
the 8 hp engine is working its ass off to produce those 8 hp versus the 15,
er, 9.9 is loafing.  We've been having this discussion on my Beechcraft
Bonanza board lately because 100LL fuel is dying and those boys who own the
550 cubic inch engines will be forced to de-rate their power to burn the
lower octane fuel that my old bird burns with no problem.  Weight is one
thing and a whole other issue.  Running a 15 hp engine at the 8 hp level
will make for a long lasting engine.

BTW, I got written-up by a student a few months ago because he pissed me off
with his "stump the professor" questions and I reminded him of the old adage
of how engines really work - SUCK/SQUEEZE/BANG/BLOW.

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

> Tom,
>
> The more powerful engine has the same block with a slightly different
> bore and the fuel injection is calibrated differently.  The only real
> difference is power output and price.
>
> You can compensate for weight hanging off the stern by putting a bigger
> anchor up front.
>
> I am about to get a 4-stroke for the quiet factor, and trying to decide
> between 8 and 9.9.
>
> The 9.9 won't get you any more speed (I don't think you can plane when
> using the motor) but it will get you more power when the wind is on your
> nose--this will allow you to go faster into the wind.
>
> On the other hand, I would guess it uses more fuel for the same distance
> traveled.
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
>
>
>
> Mary Lou Troy wrote:
> > Hi Tom,
> > This is a case where I don't think bigger is necessarily better. If
> > the weights are about the same, it probably is a trade-off but in any
> > event it's a lot of weight hanging off the stern of a Rhodes 22. I'm
> > convinced that it does negatively affect sailing characteristics. We
> > scrounged for every pound that we could in looking for a new motor
> > but still ended up over 100 lbs. Of course we decided that at this
> > stage in our lives we've both had transient shoulder and back issues
> > and that electric start made sense so that added to the weight. The
> > old Honda 8 was about 80 lbs. If I was sailing a smaller lake
> > (anything smaller than Lake Champlain) I'd probably want a 4 or 6 hp.
> >
> > Our old Honda "classic" 8 was a high thrust 4 stroke motor - not as
> > high thrust as the Yamaha but it worked really well both over long
> > distances and maneuvering in close quarters. We haven't figured out
> > maneuvering with the Yamaha. It doesn't seem to want to turn as well.
> > Maybe the high thrust output against the rudder is interfering a bit.
> > Maybe we just need to get used to it.
> >
> > For motoring long distances (long being 30-35 miles), you can't beat
> > a four stroke. They are quieter and more fuel efficient than most
> > older two strokes. The quiet means you can easily have a conversation
> > with someone else in the cockpit or hear what's happening on the
> > radio. It also keeps a peaceful morning motor with no wind and flat
> > water peaceful.
> >
> > I don't think low rpms will hurt the motor (warning - this entire
> > paragraph is just slightly informed opinion). At a certain point you
> > don't gain anything. A 15 hp won't move the boat any faster or more
> > reliably than an 8. I doubt you could tell the difference between and
> > 8hp and a 9.9hp all other things being equal. You are up to the hull
> > speed limit easily with either one. I imagine (but don't know) that
> > you might be able to tell the difference between a 6hp and an 8hp
> > coming through some place like Kent Narrows with the very strong
> > current under the drawbridge or maybe battling an 18 knot wind on the
> > nose and a nearly one knot current under the Bay Bridge. We've done
> > both of those trips with the old Honda and it performed very well. I
> > expect our new Yamaha 8hp HT would handle both of those equally well.
> >
> > Mary Lou
> > 1991 R22 Fretless
> > Rock Hall, MD
> >
> > At 03:28 PM 5/28/2008, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Mary Lou,
> >> Thanks, I will keep the ease of flushing the motor in mind when I buy.
>  Was
> >> your old 8 a 4 stroke?  Was it high thrust?  If the 9.9 and the 8 have
> the
> >> same weight, why not buy the most powerful?  Is part of the answer
> related
> >> to inefficiency at low rpm, ie., if a stronger engine will get to hull
> speed
> >> at lower rpm, will long runs at low rpm harm the engine?  In my
> landlubber's
> >> imagination, I think a big motor will save my ass some day.  As I get
> used
> >> to sailing, I am learning that sailing is probalbly safer than motoring,
> but
> >> I do want the ability to cruise long distances, maybe 20-30  windless
> miles
> >> with a reliable motor.
> >> Thanks,
> >> Tom Hogarty, boat still on trailer
> >>
> >>
> >> Mary Lou Troy-2 wrote:
> >>
> >>> Tom,
> >>> If you are going to be leaving the boat in the water, one thing to
> >>> consider is how easy it is to flush the motor with the boat in the
> >>> water. We recently had to replace our 10 year old Honda which died
> >>> from saltwater corrosion in the cooling water passages. There was no
> >>> way to easily flush the motor. Newer Hondas have a more accessible
> >>> flushing mechanism as do the Yamahas which is what we ended uo with
> >>> (8 hp high thrust). Too soon to tell you how we like it compared to
> >>> the Honda. We looked at a Mercury that was not easily flushed. I've
> >>> heard but couldn't verify that the clearance in the cooling passages
> >>> in the Merc are larger than in the Honda so this may not be a
> >>> problem. We didn't want to chance it.
> >>>
> >>> We've found that 8 hp seems to be more than enough for any conditions
> >>> you might want to be out in. The old 8 horse Honda pushed us through
> >>> some strong currents, high winds and good sized waves on the nose. We
> >>> could motor easily at hull speed in milder conditions.
> >>>
> >>> Mary Lou
> >>> 1991 R22 Fretless
> >>> Finally in the water in Rock Hall, MD
> >>>
> >>> At 11:16 PM 5/27/2008, you wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Rob,
> >>>> I plan to sail the Chesapeake and am just mulling over the purchase of
> a
> >>>> high thrust outboard, certainly a 4 stroke.
> >>>> Tom
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Rob Lowe wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Tom,
> >>>>> Where are you sailing?  I sail an inland lake and my standard 8hp 4
> >>>>>
> >>>> stroke
> >>>>
> >>>>> has more than enough power.  I rarely run it over 1/2 throttle.
>  Those
> >>>>>
> >>>> on
> >>>>
> >>>>> the coast might recommend something different.  In fact, I suspect a
> >>>>>
> >>>> 6hp
> >>>>
> >>>>> would suit my needs.  At one time there was a big 2 vs. 4 stroke
> debate
> >>>>> amongst the members, but if you are considering a new motor, about
> all
> >>>>>
> >>>> you
> >>>>
> >>>>> can find is a 4 stroke unless you are looking at discontinued models.
> >>>>>
> >>>> -
> >>>>
> >>>>> rob
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Tom Hogarty" <hogarty at vcn.com>
> >>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 5:24 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Obama is a Crook!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I am also considering a new outboard.  Are the high thrust models, 8
> >>>>>>
> >>>> or 9
> >>>>
> >>>>> hp
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ok?  When not specified, I assume you are talking about 4 cycles.
> >>>>>> Tom Hogarty
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Arthur H. Czerwonky wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Bill,
> >>>>>>> No reflection on the Merc 9.9, but I have found, as others, that
> the
> >>>>>>> Tohatsu 8 is one excellent choice for the R22.  You might give it
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> some
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> thought.  I have no idea on costing, but Ron Singerman is using a
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> 9.8
> >>>>
> >>>>>> on
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> his new boat.
> >>>>>>> Art
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> From: bdunn1 <bdunn1 at aol.com>
> >>>>>>>> Sent: May 27, 2008 11:40 AM
> >>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics:  Obama is a Crook!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Rummy: Need your advice; my 8 hp Yamaha on my 98 Rhodes bit the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>> dust; I
> >>>>
> >>>>>> am considering a 9.9 Mercury 4-cycle. When I bought the boat used it
> >>>>>>
> >>>> had
> >>>>
> >>>>>> the remote controls and the motor connected to the rudder for
> >>>>>>
> >>>> steering.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Question: Can I use the Mercury with the standard "all the controls
> in
> >>>>>> one
> >>>>>> handle", not connect it to the rudder and steer into and out of the
> >>>>>>
> >>>> dock
> >>>>
> >>>>>> with the rudder in the upright position using the motor to steer?
> >>>>>>
> >>>> There
> >>>>
> >>>>>> will be some conflict with the railing but I thought by tilting the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> control
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> it would be ok.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> regards,
> >>>>>>>> Bill Dunn
> >>>>>>>> On May 27, 2008, at 10:20:26 AM, R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>>> From:   R22RumRunner at aol.com
> >>>>>>>> Subject:    Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Obama is a Crook!
> >>>>>>>> Date:   May 27, 2008 10:20:26 AM EDT
> >>>>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>>>> Nope, not a thing. Same crap, different day. You know, politics
> and
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> some
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> sailing stuff thrown in for good measure.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Rummy
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In a message dated 5/27/2008 10:13:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >>>>>>>> bill at effros.com writes:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Have I missed anything?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>>>>> s/v Little Queenie
> >>>>>>>> Greenwich, CT
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch
> "Cooking
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> with
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> (
> http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>>
> >>
> http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Politics%3A--Obama-is-a-Crook%21-tp17491569p17500355.html
> >>
> >>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> View this message in context:
> >>>> http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Politics%3A--Obama-is-a-Crook%21-tp174
> >>>>
> >> 91569p17504382.html
> >>
> >>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>
> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>> Checked by AVG.
> >>>> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1468 - Release Date:
> >>>> 5/26/2008 3:23 PM
> >>>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> >>
> http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Politics%3A--Obama-is-a-Crook%21-tp17491569p17520294.html
> >> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG.
> >> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date:
> >> 5/28/2008 7:20 AM
> >>
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________
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>