[Rhodes22-list] motors

Mary Lou Troy mtroy at atlanticbb.net
Thu May 29 11:30:37 EDT 2008 

Brad
I don't think we ever had our Honda 8 up over 2/3 throttle even in 
the most trying conditions. Usually it would move the boat to hull 
speed while loafing along at less than 1/2 throttle so it probably 
never really needed all 8 horses. Somewhere the law of diminishing 
returns has kicked in and I have my suspicions it may well be before 
8hp. Too soon to tell on the Yamaha 8 but I would expect it to be the 
same. The big prop/high thrust may change the equation somewhat but I 
still am willing to be that it is more motor than we need 99.99% of the time.

Mary Lou
1991 R22 Fretless
Rock Hall, MD


At 10:20 AM 5/29/2008, you wrote:
>Bill,
>
>You are basically correct, the 9.9 engine is really a 15 hp engine de-rated
>via fuel flow to beat the regs.  The difference between 8 hp and 9.9 hp
>doesn't mean squat (as Rummy pointed out) because of hull speed, however,
>the 8 hp engine is working its ass off to produce those 8 hp versus the 15,
>er, 9.9 is loafing.  We've been having this discussion on my Beechcraft
>Bonanza board lately because 100LL fuel is dying and those boys who own the
>550 cubic inch engines will be forced to de-rate their power to burn the
>lower octane fuel that my old bird burns with no problem.  Weight is one
>thing and a whole other issue.  Running a 15 hp engine at the 8 hp level
>will make for a long lasting engine.
>
>BTW, I got written-up by a student a few months ago because he pissed me off
>with his "stump the professor" questions and I reminded him of the old adage
>of how engines really work - SUCK/SQUEEZE/BANG/BLOW.
>
>On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
> > Tom,
> >
> > The more powerful engine has the same block with a slightly different
> > bore and the fuel injection is calibrated differently.  The only real
> > difference is power output and price.
> >
> > You can compensate for weight hanging off the stern by putting a bigger
> > anchor up front.
> >
> > I am about to get a 4-stroke for the quiet factor, and trying to decide
> > between 8 and 9.9.
> >
> > The 9.9 won't get you any more speed (I don't think you can plane when
> > using the motor) but it will get you more power when the wind is on your
> > nose--this will allow you to go faster into the wind.
> >
> > On the other hand, I would guess it uses more fuel for the same distance
> > traveled.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mary Lou Troy wrote:
> > > Hi Tom,
> > > This is a case where I don't think bigger is necessarily better. If
> > > the weights are about the same, it probably is a trade-off but in any
> > > event it's a lot of weight hanging off the stern of a Rhodes 22. I'm
> > > convinced that it does negatively affect sailing characteristics. We
> > > scrounged for every pound that we could in looking for a new motor
> > > but still ended up over 100 lbs. Of course we decided that at this
> > > stage in our lives we've both had transient shoulder and back issues
> > > and that electric start made sense so that added to the weight. The
> > > old Honda 8 was about 80 lbs. If I was sailing a smaller lake
> > > (anything smaller than Lake Champlain) I'd probably want a 4 or 6 hp.
> > >
> > > Our old Honda "classic" 8 was a high thrust 4 stroke motor - not as
> > > high thrust as the Yamaha but it worked really well both over long
> > > distances and maneuvering in close quarters. We haven't figured out
> > > maneuvering with the Yamaha. It doesn't seem to want to turn as well.
> > > Maybe the high thrust output against the rudder is interfering a bit.
> > > Maybe we just need to get used to it.
> > >
> > > For motoring long distances (long being 30-35 miles), you can't beat
> > > a four stroke. They are quieter and more fuel efficient than most
> > > older two strokes. The quiet means you can easily have a conversation
> > > with someone else in the cockpit or hear what's happening on the
> > > radio. It also keeps a peaceful morning motor with no wind and flat
> > > water peaceful.
> > >
> > > I don't think low rpms will hurt the motor (warning - this entire
> > > paragraph is just slightly informed opinion). At a certain point you
> > > don't gain anything. A 15 hp won't move the boat any faster or more
> > > reliably than an 8. I doubt you could tell the difference between and
> > > 8hp and a 9.9hp all other things being equal. You are up to the hull
> > > speed limit easily with either one. I imagine (but don't know) that
> > > you might be able to tell the difference between a 6hp and an 8hp
> > > coming through some place like Kent Narrows with the very strong
> > > current under the drawbridge or maybe battling an 18 knot wind on the
> > > nose and a nearly one knot current under the Bay Bridge. We've done
> > > both of those trips with the old Honda and it performed very well. I
> > > expect our new Yamaha 8hp HT would handle both of those equally well.
> > >
> > > Mary Lou
> > > 1991 R22 Fretless
> > > Rock Hall, MD
> > >
> > > At 03:28 PM 5/28/2008, you wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> Mary Lou,
> > >> Thanks, I will keep the ease of flushing the motor in mind when I buy.
> >  Was
> > >> your old 8 a 4 stroke?  Was it high thrust?  If the 9.9 and the 8 have
> > the
> > >> same weight, why not buy the most powerful?  Is part of the answer
> > related
> > >> to inefficiency at low rpm, ie., if a stronger engine will get to hull
> > speed
> > >> at lower rpm, will long runs at low rpm harm the engine?  In my
> > landlubber's
> > >> imagination, I think a big motor will save my ass some day.  As I get
> > used
> > >> to sailing, I am learning that sailing is probalbly safer than motoring,
> > but
> > >> I do want the ability to cruise long distances, maybe 20-30  windless
> > miles
> > >> with a reliable motor.
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Tom Hogarty, boat still on trailer
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Mary Lou Troy-2 wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Tom,
> > >>> If you are going to be leaving the boat in the water, one thing to
> > >>> consider is how easy it is to flush the motor with the boat in the
> > >>> water. We recently had to replace our 10 year old Honda which died
> > >>> from saltwater corrosion in the cooling water passages. There was no
> > >>> way to easily flush the motor. Newer Hondas have a more accessible
> > >>> flushing mechanism as do the Yamahas which is what we ended uo with
> > >>> (8 hp high thrust). Too soon to tell you how we like it compared to
> > >>> the Honda. We looked at a Mercury that was not easily flushed. I've
> > >>> heard but couldn't verify that the clearance in the cooling passages
> > >>> in the Merc are larger than in the Honda so this may not be a
> > >>> problem. We didn't want to chance it.
> > >>>
> > >>> We've found that 8 hp seems to be more than enough for any conditions
> > >>> you might want to be out in. The old 8 horse Honda pushed us through
> > >>> some strong currents, high winds and good sized waves on the nose. We
> > >>> could motor easily at hull speed in milder conditions.
> > >>>
> > >>> Mary Lou
> > >>> 1991 R22 Fretless
> > >>> Finally in the water in Rock Hall, MD
> > >>>
> > >>> At 11:16 PM 5/27/2008, you wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Rob,
> > >>>> I plan to sail the Chesapeake and am just mulling over the purchase of
> > a
> > >>>> high thrust outboard, certainly a 4 stroke.
> > >>>> Tom
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Rob Lowe wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Tom,
> > >>>>> Where are you sailing?  I sail an inland lake and my standard 8hp 4
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> stroke
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> has more than enough power.  I rarely run it over 1/2 throttle.
> >  Those
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> on
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> the coast might recommend something different.  In fact, I suspect a
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> 6hp
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> would suit my needs.  At one time there was a big 2 vs. 4 stroke
> > debate
> > >>>>> amongst the members, but if you are considering a new motor, about
> > all
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> you
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> can find is a 4 stroke unless you are looking at discontinued models.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> -
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> rob
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>> From: "Tom Hogarty" <hogarty at vcn.com>
> > >>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 5:24 PM
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Obama is a Crook!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> I am also considering a new outboard.  Are the high thrust models, 8
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>> or 9
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> hp
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> ok?  When not specified, I assume you are talking about 4 cycles.
> > >>>>>> Tom Hogarty
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Arthur H. Czerwonky wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Bill,
> > >>>>>>> No reflection on the Merc 9.9, but I have found, as others, that
> > the
> > >>>>>>> Tohatsu 8 is one excellent choice for the R22.  You might give it
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>> some
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> thought.  I have no idea on costing, but Ron Singerman is using a
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>> 9.8
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> on
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> his new boat.
> > >>>>>>> Art
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> From: bdunn1 <bdunn1 at aol.com>
> > >>>>>>>> Sent: May 27, 2008 11:40 AM
> > >>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics:  Obama is a Crook!
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Rummy: Need your advice; my 8 hp Yamaha on my 98 Rhodes bit the
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>> dust; I
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> am considering a 9.9 Mercury 4-cycle. When I bought the boat used it
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>> had
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> the remote controls and the motor connected to the rudder for
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>> steering.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> Question: Can I use the Mercury with the standard "all the controls
> > in
> > >>>>>> one
> > >>>>>> handle", not connect it to the rudder and steer into and out of the
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>> dock
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> with the rudder in the upright position using the motor to steer?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>> There
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> will be some conflict with the railing but I thought by tilting the
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> control
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> it would be ok.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> regards,
> > >>>>>>>> Bill Dunn
> > >>>>>>>> On May 27, 2008, at 10:20:26 AM, R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> From:   R22RumRunner at aol.com
> > >>>>>>>> Subject:    Re: [Rhodes22-list] Politics: Obama is a Crook!
> > >>>>>>>> Date:   May 27, 2008 10:20:26 AM EDT
> > >>>>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > >>>>>>>> Nope, not a thing. Same crap, different day. You know, politics
> > and
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> some
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> sailing stuff thrown in for good measure.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Rummy
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> In a message dated 5/27/2008 10:13:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > >>>>>>>> bill at effros.com writes:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Have I missed anything?
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Bill Effros
> > >>>>>>>> s/v Little Queenie
> > >>>>>>>> Greenwich, CT
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch
> > "Cooking
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> with
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> (
> > http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > >>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>> View this message in context:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>
> > 
> http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Politics%3A--Obama-is-a-Crook%21-tp17491569p17500355.html
> > >>
> > >>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > >>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> __________________________________________________
> > >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> View this message in context:
> > >>>> http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Politics%3A--Obama-is-a-Crook%21-tp174
> > >>>>
> > >> 91569p17504382.html
> > >>
> > >>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> __________________________________________________
> > >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>
> > >>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> > >>>> Checked by AVG.
> > >>>> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1468 - Release Date:
> > >>>> 5/26/2008 3:23 PM
> > >>>>
> > >>> __________________________________________________
> > >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> --
> > >> View this message in context:
> > >>
> > 
> http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Politics%3A--Obama-is-a-Crook%21-tp17491569p17520294.html
> > >> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > >>
> > >> __________________________________________________
> > >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>
> > >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> > >> Checked by AVG.
> > >> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date:
> > >> 5/28/2008 7:20 AM
> > >>
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >
> > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG.
>Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.3/1472 - Release Date: 
>5/29/2008 7:27 AM

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