[Rhodes22-list] Herb's Response
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Thu Nov 20 13:49:26 EST 2008
Actually, I worded that deliberately. If someone chooses to take a
person's view, and attack them personally for their view, that attack
may or may not be "rational". Here's examples:
John Doe says "Historically, more white collar crimes are committed by
white people". Responding to that by saying "John, you're a racist"
would be irrational. The view does not fit the comment, because John is
merely repeating a fact.
However, if John Doe says "I hate all those white people", it would NOT
be irrational to say "John, you're a racist", since his his view is a
racist view.
At the same time, a personal "counter attack" is NOT irrational. It may
be "stooping to the same level", it may be unnecessary, it may (and
probably does) escalate things, but it's not irrational. Countering a
personal attack with another one is not only rational, it can often be
instructional. And, it's a very good release mechanism.
I would say that those that are offended by such things would be well
served not to BEGIN them. I will also so, you are the exception to the
rule on here, and frankly, one of the few I've seen that really has a
reason to complain.
pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote:
> Herb,
>
> If you are a rational person (and I think you are), why wouldn't you
> always repond rationally regardless of what the other person does or says?
> Are you saying in a way that you are more than willing to stoop to
> someone else's level? If so, I think you are demeaning yourself. Perhaps
> that's why some of these things sometimes spin out of control. Stay above
> the fray. You're better than that.
>
> Paul
>
>
>> Apology accepted with one small note. If you were to go back and look
>> closer at my previous emails, I believe you'd see little change in what
>> I'm "doing of late". I respond to rational discussions rationally. I
>> respond to irrational ones in a way I feel appropriate.
>>
>> Robert Skinner wrote:
>>
>>> You are right, Hank. When I reviewed the exchange,
>>> it was clear that I misunderstood Hank's message.
>>> I went over the line, and owe Herb an apology.
>>>
>>> Herb, of late you have been easier to take, and
>>> your message was rational. I am in the wrong.
>>>
>>> /Robert
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> Hank wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Robert,
>>>>
>>>> I have to call foul on this one. Herb came back with a reasonable
>>>> response
>>>> to your email, did not attack you, was calm and cool, and then you get
>>>> huffy
>>>> and complain? You have just lost any credibility or right to bitch
>>>> about
>>>> anyone else's posts.
>>>>
>>>> Hank
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Robert Skinner
>>>> <Robert at squirrelhaven.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> OK, you got the last word - a lot of last words...
>>>>> You win. I have no further desire to talk to you.
>>>>> Satisfied?
>>>>>
>>>>> /Robert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mandate? I wasn't talking about a mandate, I was talking about Palin
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> fading off into the sunset.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not a big believer in the "mandate" stuff. A politician is
>>>>>> elected.
>>>>>> It doesn't matter if he's elected by a 1% margin, or a 90% margin,
>>>>>> he's
>>>>>> elected, and he needs to start fulfilling the promises and
>>>>>> commitments
>>>>>> he made to those that elected him. If Obama can do that, I'll be
>>>>>> surprised. I don't think he can, nor do I think he will. That's why
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> not particularly upset by the results.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He made a lot of overt commitments that I don't think he will be able
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> keep, and that's not even considering all the "implied" promises. He
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> elected on a campaign of "let's take it away from the minority and
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> it to the majority", and LOTS of people are expecting more than he
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be able to deliver. Don't pooh pooh those accounts of people
>>>>>> reporting
>>>>>> about how happy they are that he's going to take care of their gas
>>>>>> bill
>>>>>> and their mortgages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then add to that the possible disaster that I see looming in
>>>>>> Iraq/Afghanistan. There's no doubt that the "implied promise" was
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> he will get us out of Iraq, and begin fighting in Afghanistan and
>>>>>> deliver up Bin Laden.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If he pulls out of Iraq fast enough to suit his left wing followers,
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> will make Vietnam look like a policy masterpiece. We will literally
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> pulling snatching victory away. If Iraq then falls into a mess like
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> happened in Vietnam, shame shame shame (I had a typo there that I
>>>>>> corrected, but it still fits - same shame shame).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then, we go into Afghanistan, and have the same resounding "success"
>>>>>> enjoyed by the Russians. I don't believe we have the stomach as a
>>>>>> nation
>>>>>> to fight a man to man ground war that is required in the mountains of
>>>>>> Afghanistan. If we won't let our military succeed in Iraq, we surely
>>>>>> will not in Afghanistan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And, do you REALLY think he's going to deliver up Bin Laden?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect we're going to be hearing a LOT of "We may not succeed in
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> term..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope though, that people have a good memory. I know I did when I
>>>>>> didn't vote for "read my lips" President Bush '41.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I said, no mandate needed. He just needs to start doing what he
>>>>>> promised to do. I think the next two years are going to be
>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope that the voters
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert Skinner wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When it comes to mandates, he has done
>>>>>>> a lot better than his predecessor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are undeniable advantages to verbal
>>>>>>> skills when communicating -- a talent
>>>>>>> conspicuous in its absence in Bush.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As to Reagan, at least he could string a
>>>>>>> few words together without tripping on
>>>>>>> his tongue -- that was my point. It
>>>>>>> served him well in negotiations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /Robert
>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You DO understand the difference between an orator, and someone
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> oratory skills. Surely you're not saying that after hearing Palin's
>>>>>>>> speech to the RNC that she had NO oratory skills?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How does having (or not having) an oratory ability reflect a lack
>>>>>>>> (or
>>>>>>>> existence) of anti-intellectual attitudes?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry Robert, your guy won the election, but he did not receive a
>>>>>>>> mandate for the rest of the world to blindly become like him and
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> he
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> represents.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Again, you used Reagan as an example, but you seem to overlook what
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> "deep thinkers" and intellectual community were saying about him
>>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> then.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For all of Carter's deep thinking and oratory abilities, he let a
>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>> of "students" hold us hostage for over a year. My personal result
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> our
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> actions during that disgraceful period were in a large part
>>>>>>>> responsible
>>>>>>>> for 9-11.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Take those radicals, who we were TOTALLY unsuccessful in dealing
>>>>>>>> with,
>>>>>>>> and multiply them by 10 fold. THAT is what the orator and deep
>>>>>>>> thinker
>>>>>>>> is going to deal with. That's OK though, because he's already made
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> clear that he's willing to sit down with any of them and "talk".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We'll see what the oratory and talk gets us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Robert Skinner wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Herb, I think that a person who has some oratory
>>>>>>>>> skills will be a help in negotiations with the
>>>>>>>>> international community. They do not have the
>>>>>>>>> anti-intellectual attitude that has been anything
>>>>>>>>> but an asset as we interact with the world's best
>>>>>>>>> brains.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> /Robert
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Brad,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Robtert (and others like him) are looking at Palin from the far
>>>>>>>>>> left
>>>>>>>>>> view. They're somehow under the illusion that we WANT an "orator"
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "deep thinker". It's funny the two he compared her (negatively)
>>>>>>>>>> to.
>>>>>>>>>> Regan, who the Democrats lambasted much the same way they did her
>>>>>>>>>> (remember when he talked about Star Wars defense, and they
>>>>>>>>>> started
>>>>>>>>>> derisively calling him Ray-Gun?), and President Jimmy Carter.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> Carter!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, a great orator, a great guy in general, a good Christian
>>>>>>>>>> man,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> and a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> joke of a President. If that's what oratory ability and deep
>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>> gets us, give me the common man (or woman) instead!!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it seems you've bought into the MSM meme and haven't done
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>> own homework. I suggest you do your own due diligence on Gov.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> Palin's
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> very real accomplishments before you let other people do your
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> thinking
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> for you. Unlike Obama's long string of failures in Chicago,
>>>>>>>>>>> Palin
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> can
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> point to real successes. Frankly, I'm not impressed by a
>>>>>>>>>>> Harvard
>>>>>>>>>>> degree in law or anything else. For the sake of the country, I
>>>>>>>>>>> wish
>>>>>>>>>>> for a successful Obama Presidency. As for me and my family,
>>>>>>>>>>> "we're
>>>>>>>>>>> loaded for bear". How anyone can believe that a leader with a
>>>>>>>>>>> mediocre track record following failed economic themes can be
>>>>>>>>>>> successful is beyond me. No one will be more happily surprised
>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> all works out OK than myself.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Robert Skinner
>>>>>>>>>>> <Robert at squirrelhaven.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly, she is no "Great Communicator."
>>>>>>>>>>>> We will never see "Bedtime for Palin."
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nor, I suspect, will we hear about a
>>>>>>>>>>>> Carteresque "lusting in the heart."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, Brad.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But is too early to expect that Bambizilla
>>>>>>>>>>>> will retire from the political scene. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> suspect that the GOP spinsters will find
>>>>>>>>>>>> some way to use her, perhaps as a contrast,
>>>>>>>>>>>> a straw woman, to a real Republican orator
>>>>>>>>>>>> or deep thinker to spark up the 2012 campaign.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But for the next two years, I hope, we can
>>>>>>>>>>>> get working on the nation's business. We can
>>>>>>>>>>>> hope that Obama can calm the fears and tame
>>>>>>>>>>>> the chaos of an economy headed for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> dumpster. We will also see if he can
>>>>>>>>>>>> extricate us gracefully from Iraq and succeed
>>>>>>>>>>>> in bringing down the terrorist franchises.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hoping,
>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben Cittadino wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rummy;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very cute.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And now....before she fades into the sunset, some final words
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> Sarah
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "My concern has been the atrocities there in Darfur and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> relevance to me
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with that issue as we spoke about Africa and some of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> countries
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> there
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that were kind of the people succumbing to the dictators and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> corruption
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of some collapsed governments on the continent, the relevance
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> Alaska's
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> investment in Darfur with some of our permanent fund dollars"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, she concluded, "never, ever did I talk about, well, gee,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> it a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> country or a continent, I just don't know about this issue."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know, I know... her heart is in the right place (and so are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> few other
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> R22RumRunner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No Hard Feelings...to the democrats
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The election day is over,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The talking is done.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My party lost, your party won.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So let us be friends,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let arguments pass.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll hug my elephant,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You kiss your ass.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more!(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p://
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>> --
>> Herb Parsons
>>
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--
Herb Parsons
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