[Rhodes22-list] POLITICAL Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done That

Sat Oct 18 17:58:24 EDT 2008

Andrew,

Look up.
The subject line was (is):
POLITICAL Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done That

Andrew Collins wrote:
> PD
>
> None taken, it seemed to me the quality of that particular 'essay' was not
> up to par.  My subject line didn't show the 'political', so if it did, my
> apology.
>
> The two parts of the 'healthy debate-slug fest' that troubles me is the
> grinding use of epithets and personal attacks, to wit, Herb wants to tell me
> to stuff it. That is not a debate it is a conversation stopper. The other is
> that the back and forth seems to be just shouting, without communication.
> It really reminds me of rap music, all shouting and no music.
>
> Been sailing much? Mine is coming out this week, more's the pity.
>
> Andrew
> sv Carmen
> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 5:01 PM, <pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net> wrote:
>
>   
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Sorry to offend you.  I don't think what I did was any different than what
>> many others have done, in terms of reading something that mirrored my
>> views and posted it for others to also read.  How is this different than
>> some of the left leaning New York Times articles or other MSM stuff that
>> has been posted here?  It's from:  http://www.americanthinker.com
>>
>> What is your problem with the subject line?  I correctly listed it as
>> "Political".  Also, I don't call it a lowly slug-fest.  I call it a
>> healthy debate.  I don't take offense at any of the left leaning posts.  I
>> actually enjoy reading both sides.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Paul D. Grandholm
>>
>>     
>>> Dear pdgrand nospam:
>>>
>>> awful post
>>>
>>> " ... when decades of liberal energy policy came home to roost "?
>>>
>>> This post isn't worthy of even this lowly slug-fest we call a sailing
>>> forum.
>>>
>>> And whaddabout the subject line? Ed where are you?
>>>
>>> Can we have a new rule: you have to write it yourself not cut and paste
>>> any
>>> old uncorroborated opinion that oozes across the web?
>>> And if Joe is an unlicensed plumber, he is just that. He should be
>>> licensed,
>>> take the tests, go to trade school. Do unlicensed pilots fly? Do
>>> unregistered engineers practice, do unlicensed beauticians give facials?
>>> No,
>>> they don't
>>>
>>> This unlicensed tradesman is manipulating gas installations, connections
>>> to
>>> the public water supply, connectiions to public sewer systems, etc. This
>>> work brings with it responsibilities that every municipality requires be
>>> satisfied by obtaining a plumbing license before being allowed to this
>>> kind
>>> of work.
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:37 PM, <pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> October 17, 2008
>>>>
>>>> Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done That
>>>>
>>>> By C. Edmund Wright<http://www.americanthinker.com/c_edmund_wright/>
>>>>
>>>> God love you Joe. Bless your heart Joe.  You, and people like you, are
>>>> what makes the country work. You make the country great. You get it --
>>>> you
>>>> act on it -- and you enrich the lives of your family and your friends
>>>> and
>>>> your communities and your charities as a result.
>>>> But I think what I should say now is "God help you Joe."  Look, 16 plus
>>>> years ago I was where you are now. And I must tell you  if Obama wins, I
>>>> am pulling the plug in a few months. I am out. I have had it.  I am
>>>> preparing to destroy almost 100 jobs and lower my tax bracket and I
>>>> can't
>>>> wait.
>>>>
>>>> Consider: 16 years ago I was statistically in poverty, but I had dreams
>>>> and a plan. At the time, the remnants of Reaganomics still set the
>>>> economic tone and a fired up Newt Gingrich was forcing conservatism on
>>>> the
>>>> Clinton White House every time Bill and Hillary tried to move left.
>>>> There
>>>> were actually politicians who praised business owners and business in
>>>> general.  Against that backdrop, I've had a pretty good run. It's been
>>>> extremely challenging and the move up was not a straight line, but I am
>>>> better off than I was 16 years ago. And 8 years ago. And 4 years ago.
>>>> And
>>>> so are a lot of folks who have been on this ride with me.
>>>>
>>>> But Joe, I am not better off than I was just 2 years ago. That's when
>>>> decades of liberal energy policy came home to roost and four dollar gas
>>>> took several hundred thousands from my bottom line faster than I could
>>>> possibly react.  That same gas price slammed my customers -- and my
>>>> customer's customers -- forcing our company into a vice of rapidly
>>>> rising
>>>> costs and rapidly dropping revenues. Oh, and for fun, slower payments
>>>> from
>>>> our customers.
>>>>
>>>> That started the ripple through the sub prime mortgage industry, and we
>>>> have all seen the unraveling of our financial system which was more or
>>>> less totally underpinned by real estate "values." Those assumed
>>>> valuations
>>>> were the basis for any number of derivatives and credit swaps and so on.
>>>> Well, forget all that Wall Street talk. To you and me it means employees
>>>> are more desperate for money, customers are less willing to buy, slower
>>>> to
>>>> pay and banks less willing to lend. It certainly means whatever homes
>>>> and
>>>> 401K's you have are worth less too which makes your bank even less
>>>> anxious
>>>> to lend to your business. It is the main street carnage of "unfettered
>>>> government" onto small business. It is the destructive fruit of
>>>> environmental leftists, the Fannie-Freddie cronies in government and
>>>> other
>>>> corrupt liberals in positions of power.
>>>>
>>>> And sadly, this is also the result of George Bush giving into these
>>>> folks
>>>> all too often in defense of his "new tone." (That worked out well,
>>>> didn't
>>>> it?) This was helped ironically by John McCain "reaching across the
>>>> aisle"
>>>> to vote against tax cuts and vote for energy restrictions and so on. All
>>>> of this was nicely summed up by Mitt Romney when he said that our
>>>> problems
>>>> stem from "too many Republicans acting too much like Democrats." Now, if
>>>> the polls are anywhere near accurate, we are going to get a taste of
>>>> "real
>>>> Democrats acting too much like Marxists" for at least a few years.
>>>>
>>>> Mitt was right, but the pundits said McCain was more acceptable to the
>>>> moderates. Hmmm. Wonder if a financial turn-around specialist like Mitt
>>>> might sell to the moderates now? Just a wild thought from someone not
>>>> smart enough to be a beltway pundit.
>>>>
>>>> Now Joe, as someone whose been there, let me tell you how this works,
>>>> though I think you have a good idea.  At the end of the year, as an LLC,
>>>> I
>>>> do file taxes with the business profit on my personal returns like many
>>>> of
>>>> others do as well.  And yes, that figure is much bigger than 250
>>>> thousand.
>>>> But that's not really MY MONEY to keep. It's how I underpin my business.
>>>> When customers disappear or take their time paying bills, I still have
>>>> to
>>>> pay my employees, rent, suppliers, and countless other expenses. Every
>>>> penny that the tax man takes out of that profit is less money that I
>>>> have
>>>> to carry forward to stay in business for the next year. And if Obama and
>>>> Reid and Pelosi take more of this by "raising taxes on the rich" then of
>>>> course my business will suffer. And so will all the employees.
>>>>
>>>> This is exactly what almost none of those lawyers turned politicians
>>>> understand.
>>>>
>>>> But of course, you will have to send tax money into the government, Joe,
>>>> because the man who is in charge of spending that money -- Charlie
>>>> Rangel
>>>> -- damned sure wasn't paying his fair share as we know now. Get out that
>>>> checkbook.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, all of this matters only if you can afford to fill your
>>>> plumbing vans with gas at gosh knows what price. It could be that the
>>>> recession will lower the gas price, but that's not terribly good news
>>>> for
>>>> you either, since customers don't spend as much money in a recession. I
>>>> mean, I hate to burst your bubble, but small business owners are
>>>> surrounded by a sea of challenges outside their control and almost all
>>>> of
>>>> them are caused by liberalism. Government has formed a business firing
>>>> squad and it's a doggone circle!
>>>>
>>>> I wish you well, guy.  You might just have the genius and persistence to
>>>> pull this off. I really do hope so. As for me, I have had enough. I have
>>>> fought creeping liberalism and managed more wins than losses over 17
>>>> years. We have progressed to where  our business,  now a corporation,
>>>> is
>>>> big enough so that Obama and his ilk now have their own ideas about
>>>> "what
>>>> larger businesses can afford" and what "corporations can afford."
>>>>
>>>> Well I've got news for him. I cannot afford what they think I can
>>>> afford,
>>>> so I am breaking her up and giving her away to some key employees.  I
>>>> wish
>>>> them well too. They are like you, tough and smart. Perhaps if they stay
>>>> small enough and never can carry forward more than 250 thou to the next
>>>> year, they will be allowed to keep their businesses through a downturn.
>>>>
>>>> As for me? I'm outta here.
>>>>
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
>>>> Name: untitled-[2]
>>>> Url:
>>>>
>>>>         
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20081017/5a0870b2/attachment.txt
>>     
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>     
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>   